Crown board question

[andyww]

Hi,

This is probably a silly question but.... At the moment I have a single brood box (nuc) and then a crown board. Currently I have a feeder sitting above the vent hole.

When I remove this feeder should i leave the hole uncovered, presumably if I do this the bees will enter the roof space and start building comb?

 

[Tom Bick]

If you leave it open and they start to build a bit of comb through the hole then you will know they need more room. Personally I would simply cover the hole with whatever it takes to block it.

 

[MuswellMetro]

There are two different approaches to keeping bees and ventilation and neither group will ever agree with the other group

1) followers of wedmore 1947 book on hive ventialtion, whose followers leave the feed hole open, no top insulation and Varroa Board in (ie a solid floor), entrance block out with vented full width mouse guard though some take out the varroa board to make even more ventilation

2) Followers of B Mobus, 1984 paper on hive ventilation, whose followers leave the Feed Hole closed, Top Insulation, Varroa Baord out, small mouse proof entrance no need for mouse guard /

i follow B Mobus

 

[ratcatcher]

I leave them open on commercials and nationals, but closed on rose

 

[REDWOOD]

Crown boards have no holes, feeder and clearing boards do.
Open mesh floors have enough ventilation

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Crown boards have no holes, feeder and clearing boards do.
Open mesh floors have enough ventilation

 

[enrico]

Crown boards have no holes, feeder and clearing boards do.
Open mesh floors have enough ventilation

Pedantic but true. It helps if we are all talking about the same equipment! Crown board? No hole anywhere!
E

 

[Duchy]

you could put a bit of 3mm mesh on with some thumb pins...

 

[pargyle]

/

i follow B Mobus

And others ... Bill Bielby was on the case in the early 70's and his book, published in 1977 stated "You can never have enough insulation and for the most economical wintering, hives should be highly insulated and com-
pletely draughtproof" ... Bielby was also a follower of the great Bernard Mobus who also did a lot of work on hive temperatures and humidity as well has his much famed 1984 paper.

I too follow the no drafts brigade !

 

[REDWOOD]

Why ? ambient temperature 22 degrees, inside the hive over thirty degrees, so why in the UK would we want to reduce the heat inside the hive ? bees have their own air conditioning equipment on their backs

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you could put a bit of 3mm mesh on with some thumb pins...

where? and what for?

 

[Teemore]

I should still have some pictures I took last year of a piece of mesh with a lovely circle of propolis on it. I put it over a feed hole during transit and neglected to remove it once the hive was relocated. One week later and the bees had sealed it up. Those bees did not want top ventilation.

 

[bontbee]

you could put a bit of 3mm mesh on with some thumb pins...

I have done that on that on some hives - some propolise, some don't. (All colonies on mesh floors).

Most of my "crown boards" have holes, apart from the ones I made and didn't have the technology, at the time, to make holes.

Brace yourselves...at the moment, I have most feeder holes open - the bees seem to appreciate the extra air flow, fewer bearding outside, more inside fanning.

 

[Vramin]

I should still have some pictures I took last year of a piece of mesh with a lovely circle of propolis on it. I put it over a feed hole during transit and neglected to remove it once the hive was relocated. One week later and the bees had sealed it up. Those bees did not want top ventilation.

I have tried this and the bees propolised the mesh rapidly, which suggests that they don't appreciate top ventilation, at least with open-mesh floors. I wonder whether the same would be true with solid floors.

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes agree put mesh over a feed hole and the bees will propolise it over and probably has as much to do with not been able to get through the mesh than reducing ventilation. I have noticed in the past that when feed holes are left open its not a given that the bees propolise the small vents in the roof. I have never seen but no reason why not the bees fill in an open feed hole? it would be well within their capability to do so but will no doubt think it may be usable space as they have access to any cavity if they need it.

Personally as with others I see the roof vents and the cavity obsolete and something left over when we had solid floors similar to full width entrances and have done away with them on most of my hives. I do have holes in my crown boards as it keeps the spare kit down and a simple piece of ply over the hole works just fine.

 

[alanf]

Crown boards have no holes.

I don't want to drift to argument over terminology, but that sort of statement is confusing for beginners. By definition, the "British National Hive" has a crown board with holes. Whatever you, I or anybody else considers the ideal, the design was last published in 1970. It has versions from then and before such as 1961 visible online in the form of leaflets from the Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food (on the Scottish BKA site among others). It has a "Crown Board" with

two openings in the board 1 1/16" x 3" adapted to receive Porter bee escapes, one centrally and the other parallel to it with its centre 3" from the edge of the board

That is as it is described and manufactured by the largest suppliers in the UK. It is what most beginners will buy and expect to see in the package. There are many who prefer solid crown boards but they are not "British National Hive" crown boards.

The board in the design leaflet has no guidance on how to use it however.

There are still many who follow the Wedmore idea of leaving the holes open for ventilation through the crown board, despite the major design shift since the 1980s being a mesh floor. For what it's worth I use a mesh floor, I agree entirely that is enough ventilation from below. If I'm using a bought in board I block the holes on top and use an insulating board above except when feeding or clearing. I'm well aware that I'm probably in the majority here (according to surveys over the years) but I'm almost certainly in a minority locally in blocking the holes.

 

[REDWOOD]

When is a hole not a hole ?
Do beekeepers still use porter bee escapes ?

 

[Finman]

I have done that on that on some hives - some propolise, some don't. (All colonies on mesh floors).

Most of my "crown boards" have holes, apart from the ones I made and didn't have the technology, at the time, to make holes.

Brace yourselves...at the moment, I have most feeder holes open - the bees seem to appreciate the extra air flow, fewer bearding outside, more inside fanning.

It sure that feeder hole is not meant for ventilation.
Roof holes have many purposes but not meant to keep it open in summer, neither during winter..

Extra airflow? Does UK have so hot weathers?

.

 

[Duchy]

over the feeder hole, or when the porter bee escape is not in. must be a Yorkshire thing. Most people at my association seem to be doing this.....

 

[bontbee]

Extra airflow? Does UK have so hot weathers?

At the moment, Finman, in this neck of the woods, yes!

It doesn't happen often, and most of the time the holes in my crown boards are covered, but for the first time since the last sustained hot weather in 2003, I have left them open...