confused about fondant?

[Nakedapiarist]

Can someone clear up something about fondant for me? I've been told that fondant is a suitable winter feed as firstly, bees won't take cold syrup - which makes sense and also that the lower liquid content means less need for bees to void liquid hence less requirement for cleansing flights which sounds plausible.

Down at the teaching apiary way back in March we saw one colony that was severely struggling - we were told it was probably because they were still being fed fondant and with the poor weather bees were either unable to fly to collect water to utilise it or were getting chilled and not returning after going out for water.

So, why is fondant a suitable winter feed? or why isn't a suitable spring feed?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you give bees syrup later on in the year (November/December) the water content will be too high for them to reduce as temperatures in general are lower, they will try and store it but there is a chance it will ferment and could cause dysentry.
Never heard that less liquid to void mullarkey - fondant will just sit on top and the bees will just take it as they need it (although they will store it if it's put on early in the autumn) they will need water to wsater down the fondant before they can eat it.
I think the story about the bees in the teaching apiary sounds like a load of nonsense as well, sounds to me like just a poor performing colony, period. With me, fondant won't go on the hives until late winter - and only if they are getting low on stores, I've never bothered with this giving syrup as a 'simulative feed' in spring as I've found the go off to a flying start with fondant with no problems.

 

[Millet]

If you give bees syrup later on in the year (November/December) the water content will be too high for them to reduce as temperatures in general are lower, they will try and store it but there is a chance it will ferment and could cause dysentry.
Never heard that less liquid to void mullarkey - fondant will just sit on top and the bees will just take it as they need it (although they will store it if it's put on early in the autumn) they will need water to wsater down the fondant before they can eat it.
I think the story about the bees in the teaching apiary sounds like a load of nonsense as well, sounds to me like just a poor performing colony, period. With me, fondant won't go on the hives until late winter - and only if they are getting low on stores, I've never bothered with this giving syrup as a 'simulative feed' in spring as I've found the go off to a flying start with fondant with no problems.

Lol just messing oh holy one..

 

[Nakedapiarist]

That's cleared things up - thanks. The colony in question had patchy brood, chalk brood and only a couple of thousand workers - if that, the queen was very small too.

I used syrup this spring as they were nucs and had a hell of a lot comb to build up, I figured next spring I'd go by how much the bees were flying vs how much early forage there is round here.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Down at the teaching apiary way back in March we saw one colony that was severely struggling - we were told it was probably because they were still being fed fondant and with the poor weather bees were either unable to fly to collect water to utilise it or were getting chilled and not returning after going out for water.

.... The colony in question had patchy brood, chalk brood and only a couple of thousand workers - if that, the queen was very small too.

So it was nothing to do with the fondant, more likely a failing queen or a colony suffering from N. ceranae.

Good that you could spot the mistake.

I used syrup this spring as they were nucs and had a hell of a lot comb to build up, I figured next spring I'd go by how much the bees were flying vs how much early forage there is round here.

So, why is fondant a suitable winter feed? or why isn't a suitable spring feed?

It can depend on why you're feeding.

If you simply want a colony to survive then fondant can be given at any time of the year - if that's all you've got in your kit box, and if bees at an out-apiary urgently need something to eat.

If you want to assist wax building etc in Spring, perhaps in conjunction with a shook swarm, the feed should be a light 1:1 syrup which they will use straight away.

In autumn a thicker 2:1 syrup is given to boost winter stores - less water to remove for storage.

 

[pargyle]

+1 to JBM and BeeJayBee above ... Plus - Fondant is your best friend at the end of winter if you find you have got the level of stores wrong and they look as though they are running out ... a slab of fondant, wrapped in cling film, straight on top of the frames with a few slashes in the underside will save a colony in danger of starving if they eat too much or winter goes on too long ...

 

[Finman]

.
I have never used fondant in feeding. I use only syrup in autumn and in spring.
There are emergency feeders of dry sugar too in spring. Everything is possible.

If you have couple of hives, it is not big job to feed them. If you have more hives, you know what to do.

 

[Cussword]

Sorry to resurrect, I've made up some fondant, 2 Kilo's of sugar, 600 mills water, 2 tablespoons liquid glucose. Took it up to 117C and crash cooled putting pan in cold water,stirring all the time.
I think that it feels a little too soft, but not runny, and I worry a little about inverting a container over the hive.
I've covered the containers with clingfilm, should I uncover so that it can dry and possibly harden a little?

Sorry for asking a very basic question, but it's the first time I've made it.

 

[Millet]

Sorry to resurrect, I've made up some fondant, 2 Kilo's of sugar, 600 mills water, 2 tablespoons liquid glucose. Took it up to 117C and crash cooled putting pan in cold water,stirring all the time.
I think that it feels a little too soft, but not runny, and I worry a little about inverting a container over the hive.
I've covered the containers with clingfilm, should I uncover so that it can dry and possibly harden a little?

Sorry for asking a very basic question, but it's the first time I've made it.

I'm clueless also with fondant i did try making some earlier on in the year which was also sloppy, however after several hours it set like bell metal, so basically i have gone to the other end of the scale.

 

[rayz_x]

We are still feeding Ambrosia to ours (other ready made feeds are available). I believe it has the right water content so they don't need to do any work, just store it. Also it doesn't grow mould like sugar syrup.
Ray

 

[Millet]

We are still feeding Ambrosia to ours (other ready made feeds are available). I believe it has the right water content so they don't need to do any work, just store it. Also it doesn't grow mould like sugar syrup.
Ray

I'm intrigued.
How and why .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm intrigued.
How and why .

properly mixed 2:1 sugar syrup won't go mouldy - unless it's exposed to the air and the water content increases.
Because Belgosuc and ambrosia have inverted sugars in the syrup it is stronger than 2:1 thus even less water thus even less likely to go mouldy or ferment. The bees still need to decrease the water content even further to store it properly.

 

[pargyle]

Sorry to resurrect, I've made up some fondant, 2 Kilo's of sugar, 600 mills water, 2 tablespoons liquid glucose. Took it up to 117C and crash cooled putting pan in cold water,stirring all the time.
I think that it feels a little too soft, but not runny, and I worry a little about inverting a container over the hive.
I've covered the containers with clingfilm, should I uncover so that it can dry and possibly harden a little?

Sorry for asking a very basic question, but it's the first time I've made it.

Unless it is very sloppy then the best way is to put it in a clear takeway food carton .. cut a circular hole in the lid the size of your feeder hole, put some cling film over the top of the food container and then put the lid on it over the top of the cling film. Pierce the cling film where the hole in the lid is and invert it over the feed hole. Unless it's very sloppy it won't come out and the bees will get at it if they need it.

If it is sufficiently firm to mould into a sort of fat pancake and it does not try to run off the table then the best way is to wrap it in cling film, put a couple of knife cuts through the cling film and slap it straight on top of the frames - with the knife cuts pointing downwards. If you have made it too sloppy then this latter method will end up with sloppy fondant dripping down the frames and out through the mesh floor .. been there, done that ! Even then the bees will clean it up but it's not ideal.

Frankly, for what it costs, it's better really to go to your local bakers and ask them to sell you a box of bakers fondant.. it's usually bang on the consistency you want and as long as you keep it well sealed up it lasts just about for ever. Even if it goes hard you can still turn it into syrup next spring ... it's only sugar with a bit of glucose.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Frankly, for what it costs, it's better really to go to your local bakers and ask them to sell you a box of bakers fondant.. it's usually bang on the consistency you want and as long as you keep it well sealed up it lasts just about for ever. Even if it goes hard you can still turn it into syrup next spring ... it's only sugar with a bit of glucose.

 

[masterBK]

I applied some of my stock of bakers fondant today to my xmas cake!

 

[Cussword]

Thanks chaps, it has hardened up somewhat.
I intended doing what you suggested Phil. If it's needed, I'll uncover the feeding holes in the crown boards & invert the clear plastic food containers over them. Don't really want to break any seals. Do they need covering with pierced cling film beforehand?

I think I may take the buying advice in the future.

 

[pargyle]

Do they need covering with pierced cling film beforehand?

I think I may take the buying advice in the future.

I usually just put the fondant into the tub and just cover the top with cling film before I put the lid on .. piercing the film just in the area of the hole in the lid.

The reason I do it this way is that it makes life a little easier if they need a top up as without the cling film the fondant tends to stick to the lid and the sides and getting the lid off can be difficult.

However I use two containers ... if they need more I just slide the 'empty' one out of the way and slide a full one alongside it and over the hole in the crownboard.

 

[REDWOOD]

Nothing confusing about fondant, it comes in a big block from Bakos, cut a bit off, put the bit in a disposable plastic food container, open a feeder hole on your feeder board and place the container up side down over it.
Or remove crown/feeder board fit a QE, place a full block of fondant on top of the QE, place and empty super over the QE, replace crown/feeder board insulation and roof.
All methods are subject to condition of hive and time of year.

 

[Cussword]

Thanks again all.