Combining hives in the spring

[JWF]

I currently have 6 hives, two of which are from a very swarmy colony that I want to remove the queens from. I'd also like to reduce the number of colonies in order to stop my garden being overrun with hives (I'm assuming that they all make it through the winter!)

I typically get a fairly good spring/early summer flow, so I was thinking of combining two lots of two hives, removing the swarmy queen in the process, which would also boost those hives so that there is a good yield in the early flow. I would leave the combined hives on double national brood boxes.

However, I'm concerned that it may encourage the colony to swarm, which would be rather self defeating!

So, here are some questions :

1. Can this be a workable plan?
2. Is this going to leave me vulnerable to swarming earlier than normal?
3. Is a straightforward combine of the hives the best way to go, or is there a better way? (E.g. use a Snelgrove board to bleed the bees from one colony to the other, rather than squishing the queen?)

Any other feedback is also welcome

 

[Erichalfbee]

I did just that two years ago. I reduced my colonies from eight to six. If you are doing it early enough you might get some spring honey. I did. Remember that although you have lots of bees to start with you have only one laying queen and bees will die off naturally so that by the time you get to the swarming season you should be back to a normal sized colony which will then make swarm preps as any other would. After you split don't be sentimental about keeping queens. See how the new queen proves herself then reunite and you will have lots of bees again for a summer crop.
I united just through newspaper

 

[B+.]

Any other feedback is also welcome

I would suggest that this isn't as simple as you think. The idea of a "swarmy" queen is putting all the blame for a collective (colony) decision on the queen. In fact, her workers are only 50% related to her so the influence of the drones she mated with should not be ignored.
The best time to requeen a colony wouldn't be in the spring IMHO. replacement queens can be scarce and expensive. It would be better to do this in July/August when the new queen has enough time to build up her own colony and prepare for winter. In the following spring, the colony will consist of all her workers and you can see how the perform much better.
However, I take your point about containing the number of colonies you have. If they are already disposed to swarm, compressing two colonies into one would encourage that (i.e. make it almost certain), but this depends on the age of the queen too. Are they older queens? If more than a year old, I would think compressing them into a limited space is the wrong thing to do...better to get a good queen in the summer and start requeening your stock.

 

[JWF]

My intention is to combine each of the swarmy hives with a hive with a good queen, removing the swarmy queen from circulation in the process. One swarmy colony is the daughter of the other.

The 'recipient' hives are less prone to swarming, but I do recognise that there is a risk of the colony considering itself to be big enough to swarm and doing it early as a result of my interference.

Either way, those swarmy queens need to go as they nearly reduced me to tears last year! I don't want their drones mating with any other queens I might need to produce this year.

 

[B+.]

I don't want their drones mating with any other queens I might need to produce this year.

Have you considered that you could just cut out the drone comb? It would be a bit of a chore....but do-able.

 

[JWF]

Have you considered that you could just cut out the drone comb? It would be a bit of a chore....but do-able.

It would be doable but I'd still be left with the problem of perpetual swarming to deal with. It was honestly so bad last year they made me despair! Perhaps that says as much about my swarm control methods as it does about the bees though

 

[kevrhcfag]

It would be doable but I'd still be left with the problem of perpetual swarming to deal with. It was honestly so bad last year they made me despair! Perhaps that says as much about my swarm control methods as it does about the bees though

Silly question so why take them through the winter?
Could of used the bees / brood to make sure others were strong enough for winter
Wouldn't of had swarming problem
No drones from them kicking about spring early swarming season.
Wouldn't need to worry about doing it now.

 

[B+.]

It would be doable but I'd still be left with the problem of perpetual swarming to deal with. It was honestly so bad last year they made me despair! Perhaps that says as much about my swarm control methods as it does about the bees though

i only meant for you to do this until better queens were available in the summer.
You could transfer frames of sealed drones from your good queens into the colony you want to requeen and allow them to rear them for you.
I suppose it doesn't solve your problem of too many hives, but if you requeen the iffy ones, it might change your ideas about how many you want to keep.

 

[B+.]

Wouldn't need to worry about doing it now.

Good point
However, given where he is now....

 

[JWF]

Ok I understand regarding requeening the swarmy blighters! That way I'll end up with 6 full colonies, two of which will have nice young queens.

I can live with removing drone brood for a short period

 

[Eyeman]

Originally Posted by JWF
I don't want their drones mating with any other queens I might need to produce this year.

Your queens will mate in drone congregation area some distance from your hives which will lessen the chance of your drones mating with your queens. Your drones are more likely to upset the apple cart for your neighbours.

 

[Eyeman]

Boosting the strength of you colonies by combining or as I do donating brood & bees from nucs will produce strong colonies for a spring flow. Make sure the queen has plenty of empty drawn comb to lay in and add supers early. Take care to check stores dobthat they don't starve if the flow suddenly stops because of bad weather.

 

[wightbees]

How much space do you give them in the first place? Do you restrict with QE ?

 

[JWF]

How much space do you give them in the first place? Do you restrict with QE ?

I'm in the process of moving across from std nationals to 14*12 and I do use queen excluders. The worst offender for perpetual swarming was on a 14*12, and had plenty of spare room in the BB all season.