capped in 8 days! not set in stone!

[irishguy]

I've noticed in 2 hives these last few weeks that my bees have been building and capping QCs within 7 days and not 8. How common is this or does it happen on rare occasions! For example, last Sunday I checked 2 of my colonies that had laying queens. 1 hive was in 4 frames of bias checked it today and had 9 capped QCs! When checking last week I definitely didn't miss any so these bees have built and capped in 7 day . No queen or eggs so she's done a runner still nice amount of bees thou which was strange!

The other hive was dummied down to 4 frames, and bias on 1and half frame. Noticed only 1 capped QC just left of center on frame. Noticed the queen just before I was closing up to decided on what to do next. Put frame back in so I could get a queen catcher to stick her in until I could get some advice on what to do here but when I went back to get her, coukdnt find her for the life of me. No joke, I spent an hour looking for her. Went through each frame over and over for 10mins to try and spot her again but couldnt. Closed up, left it for 10 mins and repeated this back and forth for an hour but just coukdnt spot her thou in last attempt I'm near sure I seen her in bottom corner on mesh floor, lifted brood box off but to many bees moving about and didn't find her Same with this hive, checked last sun and no QCs geting built only to return today to find one camped! This hive was a new queen only mated about a month ago too.

Wondering on what to do next. These where the 2 queens I was hoping to unite with my other -q colonies too so in bit of a pickle now. Even when I do things to the book these bees still are sending me nuts.

 

[Finman]

I've noticed in 2 hives these last few weeks that my bees have been building and capping QCs within 7 days and not 8. How common is this or does it happen on rare occasions! For example, last Sunday I checked 2 of my colonies that had laying queens. 1 hive was in 4 frames of bias checked it today and had 9 capped QCs! When checking last week I definitely didn't miss any so these bees have built and capped in 7 day . No queen or eggs so she's done a runner still nice amount of bees thou which was strange!

.

Wikipedia knows that normal is 7½ days.
3 days as egg.

 

[Philip]

So 4.5 days to convert new hatched lava to QC and cap it. So seven days is pushing it at swarm time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

QC made on 3 day larva. Capped 2 days later. Swarm same day, let alone those colonies that go before capping. Sometimes it's a losing battle. Sometimes you find your queen and capped QCs. Shrug!!

 

[Finman]

And further more, when cell is capped, the larva continues eating under the cap. After some time larva turns its head down, make the pupa silk, and becomes a pupa. Pupa stage is at day 8.

It depends how accurate you want to be.

There is a general error in beekeeping knowledge. It is mostly said that bee larva grows in 5 days 1600 fold in weight. But it is the queen. Worker larva grows 1000 fold.
Then in pupa stage brood looses 30% of its weigh.
Brood generates as much heat as resting bee.

Larva is like a sac of store protein. There are not much organs inside the larva. Organs develope in pupa stage.

 

[irishguy]

So 4.5 days to convert new hatched lava to QC and cap it. So seven days is pushing it at swarm time.

Going by my dates, 7 days they've managed to build and swarm. Yes I might be a thick Irish beek and have done things back to front here and there but this is one thing I haven't got wrong. I'm wanting to know has this been the case for others!

 

[Philip]

First off I was not suggesting you were a thick anything!

I was merely observing that the popular misconception that 7 day inspections whilst generally workable do not always work! simply knocking out swarm cells and re-inspecting 7 days later will sometimes leave you with fewer bees!

To be clear I am not suggesting that is what you have done. They could have used 3day old eggs and produced QC in 4.5 days and be gone before you next inspected 7 days later. from what you write the 7 day gap is the only thing you can be certain off.. yes?

I have personally seen them do it in 5 days whilst holding a queen during a queen during rearing exercise. that is no QC to 4 capped cells with a good number of other in various stages of development.

 

[Finman]

.
If queen's wing is cut, 7 days inspect period us OK. It fits to working week.

But is the brood cycle 7 or 8 days, it has no meaning. IT is however the same as millon years ago. The watching queen cells formation all the time change nothing. It is what it is.

 

[thenovice]

Going by my dates, 7 days they've managed to build and swarm. Yes I might be a thick Irish beek and have done things back to front here and there but this is one thing I haven't got wrong. I'm wanting to know has this been the case for others!

yup! had it twice with the same hive. no charged cells one week and queen gone the weekend after. requeened and now problems are solved.

 

[bjosephd]

So the 'inspect every 10 days, but most inspect every 7 for convenience of the working week' is somewhat flawed when it comes to catching swarm preparations.

It seems that the language should be changed from 'swarm management' to 'swarm urge prevention'

 

[pargyle]

Going by my dates, 7 days they've managed to build and swarm. Yes I might be a thick Irish beek and have done things back to front here and there but this is one thing I haven't got wrong. I'm wanting to know has this been the case for others!

You have very well insulated hives, a few of us who also have highly insulated hives are finding that things in terms of bee deveopment from egg to be emergence are happening in much shorter time frames .. I've noticed up to two days less than the recognised 'norm' on occasions.

I was nearly caught out earlier this year for just this reason...

Not much you can do about it ... I'm not even going to think about inspections every 5 days.

 

[Finman]

You have very well insulated hives, a few of us who also have highly insulated hives are finding that things in terms of bee deveopment from egg to be emergence are happening in much shorter time frames .. I've noticed up to two days less than the recognised 'norm' on occasions.

I was nearly caught out earlier this year for just this reason...

Not much you can do about it ... I'm not even going to think about inspections every 5 days.

But these brood cycle figures have noticed in warm countries, and no variation happens in weather like Florida and California.

IT has mentioned that Apis scutellata Queen gs 3 days shorter brood cycle.
And bees keep brood temp steady despite of out temperature 36C.

Ireland is not warm country, 30-40C out temps.

.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Not much you can do about it ...

Well we can learn our bees in specific and bees in general (the reasons why they swarm etc, and their tendency to do so.)

One of this years' queens was packing her bags on 10 April in a nice warm hive; am going to keep a close eye on her daughter from the same date.

(If I keep that strain at all, which at the moment is 50:50 since mother's colony seems to be under-yielding its peers; but I reckon they mated with sons of my Hivemaker Q, so not ready to swing the hive tool three times just yet).

 

[irishguy]

You have very well insulated hives, a few of us who also have highly insulated hives are finding that things in terms of bee deveopment from egg to be emergence are happening in much shorter time frames .. I've noticed up to two days less than the recognised 'norm' on occasions.

I was nearly caught out earlier this year for just this reason...

Not much you can do about it ... I'm not even going to think about inspections every 5 days.

But these weren't in the insulated hives.

 

[Finman]

But these weren't in the insulated hives.

And brood cycle is same in insulated hives.

 

[Hivemaker.]

And brood cycle is same in insulated hives.

But not in highly insulated hives according to some by the sounds of it, worker from freshly laid egg to emerging 19 days, drones 22 days, queens 14 days... even faster than in an incubator.

 

[Finman]

But not in highly insulated hives according to some by the sounds of it, worker from freshly laid egg to emerging 19 days, drones 22 days, queens 14 days... even faster than in an incubator.

But in small cell it is fastest like with Apis scutellata.

 

[pargyle]

But these weren't in the insulated hives.

Hmmm ... Are you sure about your dates then ?

 

[irishguy]

Hmmm ... Are you sure about your dates then ?

Im 100% on it.

 

[oliver90owner]

First thing I thought, when reading the OP, was emergency cells for the first. A supercedure cell for the second - so what, if they sorted a supercedure cell inside a week did it really matter? First time I've returned to this thread since the (I think).....