Broodless Period

[GaryB]

As a newbie, and following the debate regarding OA vaping, and when, could some of the experienced beeks out there give some advice on when the broodless period should be? Are there any hard and fast rules, i.e temperature, certain dates etc that would indicate when the hive is broodless? As we cannot go into the hive during the Winter months, how is this judged?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Often late August up until mid to late September here.

 

[REDWOOD]

Same as above, although they do say the shortest day of the year although I've never looked

 

[Erichalfbee]

One of my colonies was broodless at the end of August. The others not. I might hope for a broodless window three weeks after the weather turns cold if it turns not later than the beginning of December. For me that will be mid December and that's when my colonies will get a vape.

As we cannot go into the hive during the Winter months, how is this judged?

LASI do.......(LASI ex Sussex University, Prof Ratniek's team)
That's how they know.
They say that their 100+ trial colonies are broodless at different times.

 

[B+.]

Often late August up until mid to late September here.

@HM: Are you saying that it is in response to nectar flows rather than weather conditions? Also, are these newly mated queens rather than those with established colonies?
I have found newly mated queens lay later than established colonies around here, perhaps in an attempt to secure as large a population of her own workers as possible going into winter. It might also be in response to later nectar flows as late sources such as the ivy are unreliable here

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think that the latest LASI findings tell that the likeliest time is mid to late December.

 

[user 6228]

As a newbie, and following the debate regarding OA vaping, and when, could some of the experienced beeks out there give some advice on when the broodless period should be? Are there any hard and fast rules, i.e temperature, certain dates etc that would indicate when the hive is broodless? As we cannot go into the hive during the Winter months, how is this judged?

each area of the UK has different flora, different weather, you are going to have to work it out by observation, especially if you have added insulation or in a particularly warm or sheltered spot

 

[Hivemaker.]

Also, are these newly mated queens rather than those with established colonies?

Old and young queens alike, even in the mini mating nucs.

 

[B+.]

Old and young queens alike, even in the mini mating nucs.

Thanks HM. It looks like its a regional thing then.

 

[Teemore]

I'm not working with bees on a scale similar to Hivemakers but my experience of broodless periods is similar although I note that when colonies in full hives have gone broodless, i often find that colonies in Nucs and mini nucs will continue brooding a little longer. My colonies are quick to respond to forage availability.
When I have left inspection trays in place, debris on the tray suggests that my colonies also seem to have a broodless period in November and December with activity levels increasing as the day lengthens. I'm not inclined to start pulling any hives apart just to confim broodlessness.
Some people treat two to three weeks after the first hard frost, others treat somewhere around Christmas/New Year/Winter Solstice, time permitting.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thanks HM. It looks like its a regional thing then.

At my last inspection, I could only find one colony with any brood at all but mine are A.m.c. and they're known to shut down early. With night time temperatures down to 4 degrees C now, its hardly suprising.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35388

 

[B+.]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35388

Yes. This is what I was trying to get at. I am interested to hear what you attribute the August break to.
If your Buckfasts have a break in August, it can't be in response to cold nights but it could have been the availability of forage (or light intensity, or any one of a number of other things).
My post #5 in that thread referred to nights around 4degrees C in October.
From what I remember, Buckfasts have a fair amount of Carniolan in their heritage so I am not too suprised that they behave similarly.
Carniolans are often cited as shutting down early, but, this isn't really shutting down if they're only taking a break. Nor is it completely uniform if some (one) colonies still have any brood at all.

 

[Goran]

At our place.. Carniolan: weaker shut down earlier, older shut down earlier. Brood shut down in September some, in October the rest. There are some odd ends in August or in November - but that are deviations from the rule..
Feeding later ( October and further) can provoke brooding ( counterproductive).
In broodless period bees eat only arout 1kg of stores per month.
Brood usually start in second part of January. Increased condensation I use as mark when bees eat more and know that they start with brood - consumption of 1kg of honey produce 0,5-1liter of water in the form of vapour as we learned..

 

[Beefriendly]

I find I get brood-less periods in August, but only in the bees I've taken to the heather moors. When the flow is on, as it was again this year, they stuff every empty brood cell with nectar in their mad rush to collect the stuff.
You find sealed brood surrounded by unprocessed nectar. Usually start again when they get back home and the queen has some empty cells to lay in.

 

[B+.]

You find sealed brood surrounded by unprocessed nectar. Usually start again when they get back home and the queen has some empty cells to lay in.

I'm sure HM didn't mean they were taking a brood break because they were honeybound Beefriendly.

 

[B+.]

Brood shut down in September some, in October the rest. There are some odd ends in August or in November - but that are deviations from the rule..

Thank you Goran. I noticed some variation too (although not on the scale that you seem to get).
I just wonder how reliable these generalisations are. I can see I'm going to have to investigate this further.

 

[Beefriendly]

I'm sure HM didn't mean they were taking a brood break because they were honeybound Beefriendly.

I'm don't know why HM's queens take a break, my bees on the moors appear to do so for that reason.

 

[B+.]

I'm don't know why HM's queens take a break, my bees on the moors appear to do so for that reason.

If they become honeybound, this isn't really a natural brood break as we are discussing it here. It is forced upon them by the lack of laying space and may result in them swarming.
The sort of brood break we are talking about here is when the queen naturally ceases laying even though there is space for her to do so. It is a potentially useful trait where varroa treatment might be applied in sufficient time to prevent winter bees from acquiring viri infection.
I am sure you can appreciate the difference.

Obviously, colonies on the moors are there to work heather and varroa treatment at this time would not be appropriate.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

my queens usually go off lay late August/early September

 

[B+.]

my queens usually go off lay late August/early September

I notice a similar behaviour.....but.....it is not useful unless it is long enough for all of the reproducing mites in sealed cells to move onto adult bees ....and for there to be no supers on. If there is nectar to be gathered from heather/himalayan balsam/etc, you wouldn't apply a varroa treatment so the trait is not useful (at least, not as far as I can see).

All queens have to have a brood break at the same time too, or you will simply reinfest colonies from others that have brood breaks at different times.