Best way to move from 14 x 12 to standard national frames?

[lizzie-drippin]

I have an overwintered nuc on 14 x 12 frames and want to move and expand onto standard national frames in a standard national brood box.

Is this best way a shook swarm and to feed them heavily?

Thanks

 

[fian]

If it could be done, although I suspect that it will not be to the liking of some beekeepers.
Perhaps you can try the following, for which you need the standard box and a queen excluder.
1. Arrange the standard box below the deep nest and separate the two with the excluder.
2. Locate the queen in the hive. Slide the queen through the entrance to her position in the new standard nest.
3. After a week check the deep drawer for real cells. Destroy each and every one of them.
4. Arrange a pair of unstretched bottom risers between both drawers without removing the excluder. Remove the wax seal from the honeycombs in the deep drawer.
5. Come back in a week to check the deep top drawer to make sure it is empty. Remove the drawer. Check both hikes. If any are full, remove them for harvest.
6. Remove the excluder and verify that it is on.

 

[pargyle]

Presumably you don't have a 14 x 12 hive you can move them into ? ... You can, however, put a super on a standard national box which will give you nearly a 14 x 12 and put the five frames from your nuc in there with a couple of standard national frames of foundation and dummy out the extra space, as they draw out the new national frames, add more national frames and gradually move the 14 x 12 frames to the outside and replace them with the standard nationals. You can work the 14 x 12's out gradually. Much kinder than a shook swarm. They might build a bit of free comb on the bottom of the nationals but you can trim it off and then when you have mostly nationals with the brood on .. you can get rid of the super and any remaining 14 x 12 frames.

Not that I can understand why you would want to move from the superior format of 14 x 12 to the inferior standard national - just my opinion of course.

 

[Polymorph]

I have seen a rather crude but effective approach of using secateurs to simply cut the bottoms off the 14x12 frames and then drop them into the standard deep. Not to my liking but it dig the job.

 

[Ian123]

I have an overwintered nuc on 14 x 12 frames and want to move and expand onto standard national frames in a standard national brood box.

Is this best way a shook swarm and to feed them heavily?

Thanks

Guessing with a 14x12 nuc you have 14x12 broods?……. Dummy or pack 1 out and simply sit your standard deep on top.
Avoid the shook swarm the forum may exile you

 

[Wilco]

If they're in a maisemore or BS poly nuc with the 14*12 extension, three options I can think of. Two require you to buy a standard deep brood extension for the nuc but one's more use for making two nucs on different size frames so I won't describe that one here.

First option.
Put six standard national frames in the nuc extension on top of the existing frames.
Wait for the bees to move up. Once the queen has moved up and there's brood, put a queen excluder between the two. Once all brood has emerged in the bottom then switch to standard national setup in the nuc and discard/extract the 14*12 frames.
This gives a lot of dead space above the brood area and likely gives you 14*12 frames of stores.

Second option.
Just gradually switch frames for standard deep national ones. The bees may build comb beneath these frames, if so you will need to break it off when it comes time to move to the standard national deep box. This might risk losing some of the brood.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I would make a 90mm eke and place on a standard floor. Place a national brood box on top and either do as Pargyle suggests and mix SN4s with the 14x12s or put another national box above and wait until they move up onto the SN4s in the top box.

 

[blackcloud]

A more unweildy way-an 18" square sheet of chipboard/plywood/whatever with a hole in the centre placed on top of the nuc and stabilised with bricks to prevent tipping over.
Place standard broodbox with frames on top.
Allow them a month to populate the new box.
Make sure queen is upstairs before putting a a qx between them.
Allow remaining brood in nuc to hatch before disassembly.

 

[Ian123]

A more unweildy way-an 18" square sheet of chipboard/plywood/whatever with a hole in the centre placed on top of the nuc and stabilised with bricks to prevent tipping over.
Place standard broodbox with frames on top.
Allow them a month to populate the new box.
Make sure queen is upstairs before putting a a qx between them.
Allow remaining brood in nuc to hatch before disassembly.

Just reverse boxes with nuc on top for safety/ease. They will go down particularly if you put a little drawn comb below first week then pop queen down on next inspection. Try and put a small cover or large roof over top to stop any water running in, a little won’t hurt! I still think the easiest would be to dummy the 14x12! If you have the bb

 

[Anduril]

I have seen a rather crude but effective approach of using secateurs to simply cut the bottoms off the 14x12 frames and then drop them into the standard deep. Not to my liking but it dig the job.

That is similar to what I've done in the past, instead I used a hacksaw, then cut the bottom section of brood comb and tied it into an empty brood frame without the foundation. That way I'm still utilising any brood or stores from the bottom section.

 

[lizzie-drippin]

Thanks for the advice. My 7 other hives are on standard frames and we rear queens in standard sized nucs, so having one that is 14 x 12 is a pain for swapping brood around.

That is what I am looking to switch this nuc.

 

[blackcloud]

Just reverse boxes with nuc on top for safety/ease. They will go down particularly if you put a little drawn comb below first week then pop queen down on next inspection. Try and put a small cover or large roof over top to stop any water running in, a little won’t hurt! I still think the easiest would be to dummy the 14x12! If you have the bb

How do they get out of the nuc down into the target national bb?

 

[Anduril]

Only if the nuc has a separate floor, then it is in more or less direct contact with the frames below. The brood box and nuc sandwiching a piece of ply with a hole in the middle for the bees to go down through the nuc @blackcloud

 

[Ian123]

How do they get out of the nuc down into the target national bb?

Yes good point if it’s a solid poly type it won’t work!

 

[Bee]

Thanks for the advice. My 7 other hives are on standard frames and we rear queens in standard sized nucs, so having one that is 14 x 12 is a pain for swapping brood around.

That is what I am looking to switch this nuc.

I did the reverse last year. Had them in a 14x12 box and just gradually swapped them out. Made it a bit of a pain rotating frames around & kept getting additional comb on the bottom of the regular frames. Wasn't the most productive hive of the season and I do wonder whether the continual swapping was part of that. But got there.

 

[Anduril]

I did the reverse last year. Had them in a 14x12 box and just gradually swapped them out. Made it a bit of a pain rotating frames around & kept getting additional comb on the bottom of the regular frames. Wasn't the most productive hive of the season and I do wonder whether the continual swapping was part of that. But got there.

Been there. When the standard frames get comb drawn down from the bottom bars, you can have 2 or 3 frames joined together, bees don't go straight, you have diagonal or curved comb underneath. When you take out the frames, the comb at the bottom either falls to the floor or you need to delve inside and cut the comb away, in order to slide frames across. Honey and nectar everywhere.