Best combination

[idg]

I have a bit of a dilemma. I have 7 hives, 3 of which are as follows:-
1) weak poly Nuc, poorly mated queen on 2-3 frames.
2) National hive, bees on 3-4 frames. Space closed down with insulation. Queen a bit slow but picking up gradually.
3) national hive, brood on 8-9 frames, queen laying like a train but bees are a bit aggressive. I could put up with their aggressiveness for now, but need to act if they get worse.

My dilemma is that I have a new queen arriving tomorrow. She was purchased to replace queen in H1, but I was just wandering what others would do in terms of re queening or combining. Aim is to optimise honey production.

 

[Finman]

.
You cannot offer the queen directly to the hive. Very sure method is to make a nuc for new queen.

Take from your hive a frame of emerging bees.
Make a nuc over the best hive, that they get heat from big hive. New bees emerge from frame and they have not met any queen.
Close the nuc do that no bee can go out or come in.
Put the new queen into the nuc.
Take care that it does not escape flying.
Keep all holes closed 3 days.

Later kill the bad queen that hive will be queenless 24 hours

Join the hive and those emerged bees.

 

[beeno]

Hi idg,
I would bite the bullet, combine and requeen 1 and 2. All my colonies are a bit aggressive at the moment, but I assume it is the cold weather which stops them from gathering nectar to a large extent, when they are trying to build up. Feeding two colonies now with 1:1.

 

[Finman]

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To optimize honey yield you should join those hives. 3 frames is too slow to build up. It may be capable to get honey in August.

 

[oliver90owner]

Aim to replace the queen in the aggressive colony.

Unite hives 1 & 2 retaining the good queen, but not sure how you can tell whether the poor queen was badly mated or not!

Likely tardy build up with hive 2 is because it is a small colony and nothing else, whatever is suggested elsewhere. Think about it sensibly.

You have another 4 colonies? So why you are considering these three separately? Beats me!

Personally, I would not have bought in a queen just to replace a queen in a nuc. I would have waited and made a split later in the season.

Several other alternatives, if you were to sit down and think about the whole picture including all colonies.

Just crazy, with only seven hives, to separate your colonies into different sets (assuming, here, that all are colonised).

 

[Finman]

.
That new bought queen is well done. It is good to compare different queens.

Price of queens is not bad. Not many kilos honey.

 

[idg]

The poorly mated queen is the size of a worker and is laying very small amounts of worker and drone brood.
The other four colonies all seem to be doing fine. Good queens and good build up. I would be happy to take frames from them but don't want to mess with the queens in them.
Buying the queen to replace one in my Nuc is where my inexperience comes in. It might become a £35 mistake, but I was trying to find an optimal solution to situation I now find myself in.

 

[idg]

.
To optimize honey yield you should join those hives. 3 frames is too slow to build up. It may be capable to get honey in August.

Combine 1&2? Or combine 1, 2 &3?

 

[Hawklord]

Squash dud queen in 1 then unite to 2. Take a nuc off 3 and introduce new queen to this nuc.

 

[B+.]

. Aim is to optimise honey production.

If your objective is to get the most honey you can, then you don't want to be doing anything that affects hive 3 (except swarm monitoring).
It seems to me that hive 1 is the least likely to bring any honey for you this year and, assuming there is no disease, this is where I would put the new queen. She will build up during the course of the year, but, she is unlikely to produce any/much honey this year.

Finman is right. A good queen pays huge dividends and is well worth the money. I wouldn't tolerate aggression. I would make a nuc of sealed brood from 3 in July (leave for 10 days and destroy any queen cells). Buy a replacement queen for this nuc and introduce her on a frame of emerging brood and some open honey using an introducing cage. As the brood emerges, it will feed and groom the queen, bringing her back into full laying condition. This method works better than any other method I have tried.

 

[Obee1]

If your objective is to get the most honey you can, then you don't want to be doing anything that affects hive 3 (except swarm monitoring).
It seems to me that hive 1 is the least likely to bring any honey for you this year and, assuming there is no disease, this is where I would put the new queen. She will build up during the course of the year, but, she is unlikely to produce any/much honey this year.

Finman is right. A good queen pays huge dividends and is well worth the money. I wouldn't tolerate aggression. I would make a nuc of sealed brood from 3 in July (leave for 10 days and destroy any queen cells). Buy a replacement queen for this nuc and introduce her on a frame of emerging brood and some open honey using an introducing cage. As the brood emerges, it will feed and groom the queen, bringing her back into full laying condition. This method works better than any other method I have tried.

When you say make a nuc of sealed brood, destroy queen cells - how many frames do you start with and what do they comprise of?

 

[Hawklord]

If hive 3 is aggressive and on 8-9 frames now they will likely be starting Swarm cells in the next couple of weeks. Your choices for this colony would be to do an AS or add a second brood box, do you really want an already aggressive colony to get bigger?

 

[B+.]

When you say make a nuc of sealed brood, destroy queen cells - how many frames do you start with and what do they comprise of?

The original post talked about a scenario with 3 colonies. Of the three, the nuc was failing and, if they did manage to start queen cells, I suggested that they were destroyed as the colony would not have the resources to feed them adequately. I suggested that the new queen be put into this colony as an investment for next year. I also suggested that the strong but aggressive colony was allowed to produce a crop and used as split for a new queen to be introduced later in the year (June/July) since the post was asking for an approach that would produce the most honey.

However, if you were to ask me what I would do, that would be different. As a queen breeder, I would sacrifice honey and remove the aggressive genes (i.e. kill the aggressive queen and her drone brood). I would set up a nuc 10 days before inserting the new queen under an introduction cage. The nuc would contain as much sealed brood as I could spare along with frames containing pollen and open honey. Often these are on the same frame as the brood at this time of year as the colonies aren't too big yet. After 9/10 days, I would destroy any queen cells they had started before introducing the new queen. This has always worked for me

 

[idg]

If hive 3 is aggressive and on 8-9 frames now they will likely be starting Swarm cells in the next couple of weeks. Your choices for this colony would be to do an AS or add a second brood box, do you really want an already aggressive colony to get bigger?

Ok so the plot thickens. On Thursday the new queen arrived and I placed her in the nuc as the easy option. I carried out my inspections today on the angry hive. Guess what- as predicted on here they are making their move. I found a capped queen cell. The queen was still present so I took down the queen cell. They are right across the box. They need more space. As a short term measure I have placed a second super on as the first was quite full. I have also added a super under the brood to give them more room. I planned to switch this for a brood box in the morning.
The bees are not nice to work with and so I feel I need to despatch queenie. My proposed plan is as follows.
In the morning, find and kill queen. Also cull some drone.
In 5 days remove any queen cells
Then I could either add a second brood box and merge with the requeened nuc,
or insert a frame of eggs from a more pleasant hive. Does this sound logical, and which option is best?
Thanks

 

[idg]

Any advice anyone?

 

[Hawklord]

Where is the bought queen 1,2, or in the nuc split off from 3?

 

[idg]

Where is the bought queen 1,2, or in the nuc split off from 3?

Bought queen is in 1, the poly nuc

 

[Hawklord]

I would have squashed the queen iu 1 and put the frame with the queen cell on into this. I would then have split 3 and put the bought queen into the q- part.

 

[idg]

I would have squashed the queen iu 1 and put the frame with the queen cell on into this. I would then have split 3 and put the bought queen into the q- part.

Would I then not have angry genes in 1 and the q+ part of 3? Are temperaments likely to change after manifulation?

 

[oliver90owner]

-a capped queen cell.

Err, one queen cell? Seems more like supercedure to me. Likely now to repeat, or possibly go into swarm mode so could be gone in five days.

As a response to an earlier post on the thread - what exactly has a small runty queen got to do with properly, or otherwise, mating? I am intrigued as to how your reasoning arrives at that conclusion, 'cos my ideas do not concur with yours.