Bees on the BBC website

[Martin Bee]

We really do need a 'like' button on this forum

I caught this on the BBC at the time and posted https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/search.php?searchid=4988942
But I still have not heard anything back yet

 

[Beefriendly]

Note the immediate purile post from the forums chief trill***** !!!

I know you cannot help yourself.
You are a very sick person.
I feel really sorry for you.

As I will continue to state what decrease in honey bee numbers!

 

[For want of a better word]

I know you cannot help yourself.
You are a very sick person.
I feel really sorry for you.

As I will continue to state what decrease in honey bee numbers!

Pleased to see you are on top form....

silly me .. of course bee numbers.. honey or other types are not dwining away... we keep the numbers up by massive importation from other countries, etc etc!

Keep trilling!

Chons da

 

[ShinySideUp]

Dear 'beefriendly' plus others of your persuasion,

I can point to thousands of articles relating to the decline in honey bee populations and the related decline in honey production but you can get the gist from the articles below, none of which have come from the BBC or the BBKA and come from magazines and publications from across the globe.



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2101308-decline-of-wild-bee-species-in-england-linked-to-pesticide-use/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2114421-build-green-highways-for-bees-to-help-save-vital-pollinators/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-32194-8

https://e360.yale.edu/features/declining_bee_populations_pose_a_threat_to_global_agriculture

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/23/steady-decline-honey-crop-raises-concern-honeybees-future

https://globalnews.ca/news/1942894/getting-the-facts-on-honey-production/

https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-kerala/sharp-decline-in-honey-production/article2002876.ece#!


And for an article particularly pertinent to the UK:

https://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/news/monitoring-scheme-looks-why-uks-honeypot-has-shrunk

 

[Beefriendly]

You are confusing honey bees with other pollinators (which includes Bumble Bees), a different matter.
The original BBC article you quoted specifically said honey bees.
I maintain there has not been a decline in honey bee numbers in the UK.
Rather there has been an increase in honey bee numbers over the last 20 years or so.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

clutching at straws there - you cherry pick the data to just show US honeybee statistics - we all know where the problems lie there, and it's just the americans ignoring the facts and making up a global problem where there isn't it's an american bad husbandry problem.
The New scientists articles are fine - but they deal with wild pollinators NOT honeybees which is what this thread is about.
As for the Guardian article! there is no way on earth that data gleaned from BBKA members can be construed as indicative as to the plight of the honeybee - more indicative of piss poor beekeeping practices promoted by the BBKA and it's 'experts'.
I'd rather believe data put forward by Steve Donohue who has spent a lot of time and effort travelling the world talking to beekeepers rather than data scrabbled from google. to prove some spurious argument.

 

[B+.]

we keep the numbers up by massive importation from other countries, etc etc!

Just where is this mythical place? I don't see it on the map

 

[madasafish]

Dear 'beefriendly' plus others of your persuasion,

I can point to thousands of articles relating to the decline in honey bee populations and the related decline in honey production but you can get the gist from the articles below, none of which have come from the BBC or the BBKA and come from magazines and publications from across the globe.



https://www.newscientist.com/article/2101308-decline-of-wild-bee-species-in-england-linked-to-pesticide-use/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2114421-build-green-highways-for-bees-to-help-save-vital-pollinators/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-32194-8

https://e360.yale.edu/features/declining_bee_populations_pose_a_threat_to_global_agriculture

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/23/steady-decline-honey-crop-raises-concern-honeybees-future

https://globalnews.ca/news/1942894/getting-the-facts-on-honey-production/

https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-kerala/sharp-decline-in-honey-production/article2002876.ece#!


And for an article particularly pertinent to the UK:

https://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/news/monitoring-scheme-looks-why-uks-honeypot-has-shrunk

American figures are skewed: US hive losses over winter are>30% - consistently. Largely due to amateur hobby beekeepers who - quite bluntly - have no clue, don't treat, don't insulate ..let them swarm etc Losses run from 30 to 60%. Commercial losses are Much lower - about 20%.. Northern and Southern states are roughly the same picture.

So anyone looking in the US and interviewing amateurs - far more of them -will get a skewed picture... (ditto the UK to an extent...)...

 

[ShinySideUp]

You are confusing honey bees with other pollinators (which includes Bumble Bees), a different matter.
The original BBC article you quoted specifically said honey bees.
I maintain there has not been a decline in honey bee numbers in the UK.
Rather there has been an increase in honey bee numbers over the last 20 years or so.

clutching at straws there - you cherry pick the data to just show US honeybee statistics - we all know where the problems lie there, and it's just the americans ignoring the facts and making up a global problem where there isn't it's an american bad husbandry problem.
The New scientists articles are fine - but they deal with wild pollinators NOT honeybees which is what this thread is about.
As for the Guardian article! there is no way on earth that data gleaned from BBKA members can be construed as indicative as to the plight of the honeybee - more indicative of piss poor beekeeping practices promoted by the BBKA and it's 'experts'.
I'd rather believe data put forward by Steve Donohue who has spent a lot of time and effort travelling the world talking to beekeepers rather than data scrabbled from google. to prove some spurious argument.

Just where is this mythical place? I don't see it on the map

American figures are skewed: US hive losses over winter are>30% - consistently. Largely due to amateur hobby beekeepers who - quite bluntly - have no clue, don't treat, don't insulate ..let them swarm etc Losses run from 30 to 60%. Commercial losses are Much lower - about 20%.. Northern and Southern states are roughly the same picture.

So anyone looking in the US and interviewing amateurs - far more of them -will get a skewed picture... (ditto the UK to an extent...)...

I give up. You probably believe the world is flat and that climate change is a myth. I've finished with this.

 

[For want of a better word]

I give up. You probably believe the world is flat and that climate change is a myth. I've finished with this.

However... and whatever...
There is no smoke without fire!
And this thread smoked out some of the trills!

Chons da

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I give up. You probably believe the world is flat and that climate change is a myth. I've finished with this.

You've been called out depending on duff information and when presented with good, credible and proven facts you just run back in the corner, put your hands over your ears and sing LaLaLaLa.
Statistics not surmise show that honeybee colonies are on the rise not decline, as you probably didn't take your blinkers off and read the links I quoted, here goes a quick summary:
These figures were just one of many collated for a parliamentary debate a few years ago - 2013, over 29,000 beekeepers managing around 126,000 colonies were registered in England on the National Bee Unit’s BeeBase database, compared with 15,000 beekeepers managing just under 80,000 colonies in 2008 [edit: that’s an increase of 57.5% since 2008
A European report in 2015 shows numbers of hives in the UK, not just those registered on BeeBase in England, and that number is 274,000. It also shows how much world production of honey has increased; a steady rise since 1961 apart from a flat period in the early 1990’s due to the arrival of varroa mites, and how the number of hives across the EU has risen rapidly over the last decade.
Commercial beekeepers in North America, New Zealand, France and the UK say that they are facing challenges but that their bees are doing very well and they do not recognise the picture painted by the harbingers of doom.
And a graph of honey production since 1961 collated by the EU shows a steady increase apart from a slight levelling off in the early nineties (Varroa?) from about 650,000 tonnes to 1700,00 tonnes.
Thanks to the Walrus for those figures - the one on this forum, not the one where the OP seems to get his 'facts (wonderland)

But why am I arguing, we all know the truth, just that he prefers to live in his little bubble and convince himself he is going to single handedly save the world from a fictional armgeddon

 

[user 6228]

You've been called out depending on duff information and when presented with good, credible and proven facts you just run back in the corner, put your hands over your ears and sing LaLaLaLa.
Statistics not surmise show that honeybee colonies are on the rise not decline, as you probably didn't take your blinkers off and read the links I quoted, here goes a quick summary:
These figures were just one of many collated for a parliamentary debate a few years ago - 2013, over 29,000 beekeepers managing around 126,000 colonies were registered in England on the National Bee Unit’s BeeBase database, compared with 15,000 beekeepers managing just under 80,000 colonies in 2008 [edit: that’s an increase of 57.5% since 2008
A European report in 2015 shows numbers of hives in the UK, not just those registered on BeeBase in England, and that number is 274,000. It also shows how much world production of honey has increased; a steady rise since 1961 apart from a flat period in the early 1990’s due to the arrival of varroa mites, and how the number of hives across the EU has risen rapidly over the last decade.
Commercial beekeepers in North America, New Zealand, France and the UK say that they are facing challenges but that their bees are doing very well and they do not recognise the picture painted by the harbingers of doom.
And a graph of honey production since 1961 collated by the EU shows a steady increase apart from a slight levelling off in the early nineties (Varroa?) from about 650,000 tonnes to 1700,00 tonnes.
Thanks to the Walrus for those figures - the one on this forum, not the one where the OP seems to get his 'facts (wonderland)

But why am I arguing, we all know the truth, just that he prefers to live in his little bubble and convince himself he is going to single handedly save the world from a fictional armgeddon

The number of hives does not describe the health of the honeybee population. That merely describes the effort humans are putting into bee keeping. What is relevant is the survival rate. do we have reliable information on the change in survival rate of population?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The steady rise in the number of colonies over five years, plus the significant rise in honey yield would suggest at least colonies are increasing not dying out wouldn't you say?

 

[user 6228]

The steady rise in the number of colonies over five years, plus the significant rise in honey yield would suggest at least colonies are increasing not dying out wouldn't you say?

no i wouldnt you have to normalise out our efforts and try to see what the bees are having to overcome. Its not easy or simple to analyse .I dont believe a lot of the vast bee keeping effort is of benefit to the bees, but what is the reality?

 

[Beefriendly]

no i wouldnt

You see an increase in hive numbers, beekeepers and honey yields as a decline in honey bee numbers?
How strange.

 

[For want of a better word]

You see an increase in hive numbers, beekeepers and honey yields as a decline in honey bee numbers?
How strange.

Statistics are totally skewed for the UK......
Because.....

BeeBase is not representative of the number of beekeepers or the number of colonies that are alive up and running in the UK.
No account is given for all the feral colony sites that are being inhabited by bees ... ones that have swarmed from swarmy imports and from bad beekeeping practices..... and of course people tell lies about the quantities of honey they produce ...
42kg per colony from all of my imported so called Buckfast bees... without fail every season etc etc etc etc ( Its the Carp fishers tail...)

To accuse another beekeeper of not knowing what a honeybee looks like is pretty crass indeed.

Perhaps if the UK should indulge in COMPULSORY registration for all beekeepers, perhaps a hive tax ( on empty hives as well) and movement and herd licences and all the other regulation that goes with keeping stock.... and charged a handsome fat fee to be paid for research and even more penalties for importation.......

Yes indeed this is already on the table for Post Brexit England ( Wales Scotland and Northern island would make their own rules..


Chons da

 

[B+.]

charged a handsome fat fee to be paid for research and even more penalties for importation.......

Isn't that "soap box" a little unstable Icanhopit?
You must know, as the rest of us do, that any levy that is placed on anything finds its way into the general coffer. Nothing is ring-fenced...take for example pensions which the majority of us have paid into all our working life, only to see the retirement age rise.

 

[For want of a better word]

Isn't that "soap box" a little unstable Icanhopit?
You must know, as the rest of us do, that any levy that is placed on anything finds its way into the general coffer. Nothing is ring-fenced...take for example pensions which the majority of us have paid into all our working life, only to see the retirement age rise.

Unfortunately true.

I am horrified at how the bankers were allowed to gamble my private pension away and were allowed to squander my money on vast dividends and bonuses for the top few... without any control from the government ... who incidentally also paid into my scheme in tax "benefits" to my income.

I suppose those who do get the State pension and have to pay tax on it as they are still able to work must be counted as the lucky few.

Remember that only fools and horses work.. and the only certainties in life are death and taxes!!

Let us hope that the EU will continue to put some money into bee related research post Brixtit.... the UK government probably will not as it has to prop up the rich financial sector

Yeghes da

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no i wouldnt you have to normalise out our efforts and try to see what the bees are having to overcome. Its not easy or simple to analyse .I dont believe a lot of the vast bee keeping effort is of benefit to the bees, but what is the reality?

Well, you're the expert, so I'll pipe down

You see an increase in hive numbers, beekeepers and honey yields as a decline in honey bee numbers?
How strange.

 

[Murox]

The number of hives does not describe the health of the honeybee population. That merely describes the effort humans are putting into bee keeping. What is relevant is the survival rate. do we have reliable information on the change in survival rate of population?

I agree, hive numbers do not necessarily prove population and or growth; bizarrely neither does honey production although both could be interpreted as such. Additionally the feral population remains relatively unknown.
Mans manipulation of both animals of all kinds and crops has created various anomalies . As Robertson-Dunn postulates "Implementing a solution, buying a new device, doing something different. All these things introduce change. Change in itself creates problems.
Predicting what will happen in a completely linear system is relatievly simple and accurate. Predicting how changes to a non-linear, complex or chaotic system will play out are very difficult, inaccurate and are limited to generalities."