Bee watch - is the upstairs downstairs entrance the key to making the step towards treatment free beekeeping

[Swarm]

There was quite an interest in these entrances at both shows.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the gullible are always eager to be gulled

 

[Swarm]

Not really, it's just another form of entrance, I didn't see much buying going on.

 

[Erichalfbee]

whatever - they were making some outrageous (and fantastical) claims at both the trade fair in Telford and the convention at Llanwelwedd.

I was more interested in those hive heating pads. I managed to activate all of them then thought perhaps I should have left them alone so I ran away.

 

[Sutty]

Strange there is no diagram of the product on the linked site.
I take it the round plug has multiple small entrances, and the flat plate fits on the inside with a bee-space behind it?

 

[Erichalfbee]

 

[Ian123]

View attachment 35785

You didn’t!!!!….did you?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No!
It’s off the website

 

[blackcloud]

Brain dead mathematics suggest thats some expensive plastic....
https://www.screwfix.com/p/forstner-drill-bit-set-5-pieces/1955v

 

[Sutty]

If I was convinced this was a great idea I reckon a 7mm drill bit, a bit of thin ply and a small spacer would do the same.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If I was convinced this was a great idea I reckon a 7mm drill bit, a bit of thin ply and a small spacer would do the same.

Have a go?

 

[Sutty]

Have a go?

Quite happy with my existing entrances.

 

[Ian123]

No!
It’s off the website

Just checking there was no weak moment……I did indeed suspect you had to much sense

 

[JamezF]

If I was convinced this was a great idea I reckon a 7mm drill bit, a bit of thin ply and a small spacer would do the same.

Or a 3d printer.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Or a 3d printer.

James

How do you copy something with a printer?

 

[JamezF]

How do you copy something with a printer?

Effectively it's not fundamentally different from copying it with a drill bit, wood and spacers. But in this case you'd just draw it in a CAD package rather than working it out in your head, which shouldn't be too hard given that there are known constraints on some dimensions of the parts and others probably aren't that important (and their designs are quite simple). If you had one to measure from it would be even simpler. After that it's the same as making anything else with a 3d printer.

James

 

[boywonder]

Loving the usual intransigence, guys. For those brave enough to sink some holes into their brood boxes, and part with (admittedly too much) cash, or make their own variants, it strikes me that the use of intrances is probably vastly preferable to, and more bee-friendly than our 'standard'.

Used in the prescribed way (solid floor, then shallow (no entrance), then deep (with 3 intrances), then supers as required, each with intrances).... and with those intrances pluggable with either solid plugs or vents ... Then, the way I see it:

- Bees are entering the brood area about a third of the way up - as (per Seeley's observations) they prefer in a natural nest
- Bees are able to easily defend these entrances, against both wasp attacks and robbers
- Vermin cannot enter - so no need for e.g. a mouse guard in winter
- Bees can and will readily propolise and unpropolise these channels in the baffle, thereby regulating their own environment (never seen bees try and do that with the thundering great wind tunnel we give them in a national floor!)
- Bees can use the rebate in the wall of the deep box as an impromptu landing board (so no landing board required, if that's your thing)
- Top intrances may be opened during a flow, to allow foragers to enter and hand over their wares where it will be stored, which is more efficient, and prevents traffic across the brood comb
- The solid floor is again similar to what would be found in a natural nest, and - as stated in a previous post - humidity levels in the hive consequently higher and less varroa-friendly
- for the beekeeper, it is really easy to fully close a hive, and/or regulate ventilation
- etc...

Anyway, you'll gather that I think it to be rather an interesting idea.

You'll note I say "interesting", not "good" - only as I (and you) will not be able to judge if it's good until or unless we try it...

... which I am doing this year. I bought some intrances and some seconds boxes in the Thorne sale, and am in the throes of giving it a crack. The one thing I am doing though is using deeps as supers above the brood... thereby giving myself myriad options in relation to vertical splits and other manipulations, and the possibility of constantly cycling the brood each year onto freshly drawn comb.

Anyway...

Owners of Abelo poly hives, and those familiar with the arts of Eastern European beekeeping will recognise that there are already precedents for the use of small entrances throughout the stack, and also e.g. related techniques (none of which I can remember) for mitigating cast swarms.

I know it's the 'standard', and I know that this alone makes it a compelling choice in this increasingly godforsaken country, but I do find it depressing that some intelligent alternatives or adaptations to the BS National design are not given more respect before they are plopped on from a great height by the self-annointed 'great and good'

Diatribe over. Good night

 

[Erichalfbee]

Effectively it's not fundamentally different from copying it with a drill bit, wood and spacers. But in this case you'd just draw it in a CAD package rather than working it out in your head, which shouldn't be too hard given that there are known constraints on some dimensions of the parts and others probably aren't that important (and their designs are quite simple). If you had one to measure from it would be even simpler. After that it's the same as making anything else with a 3d printer.

James

Thank you James. I can understand that.

I bought some intrances and some seconds boxes in the Thorne sale, and am in the throes of giving it a crack.

Do keep us in the loop

 

[user 20297]

Loving the usual intransigence, guys. For those brave enough to sink some holes into their brood boxes, and part with (admittedly too much) cash, or make their own variants, it strikes me that the use of intrances is probably vastly preferable to, and more bee-friendly than our 'standard'.

Used in the prescribed way (solid floor, then shallow (no entrance), then deep (with 3 intrances), then supers as required, each with intrances).... and with those intrances pluggable with either solid plugs or vents ... Then, the way I see it:

- Bees are entering the brood area about a third of the way up - as (per Seeley's observations) they prefer in a natural nest
- Bees are able to easily defend these entrances, against both wasp attacks and robbers
- Vermin cannot enter - so no need for e.g. a mouse guard in winter
- Bees can and will readily propolise and unpropolise these channels in the baffle, thereby regulating their own environment (never seen bees try and do that with the thundering great wind tunnel we give them in a national floor!)
- Bees can use the rebate in the wall of the deep box as an impromptu landing board (so no landing board required, if that's your thing)
- Top intrances may be opened during a flow, to allow foragers to enter and hand over their wares where it will be stored, which is more efficient, and prevents traffic across the brood comb
- The solid floor is again similar to what would be found in a natural nest, and - as stated in a previous post - humidity levels in the hive consequently higher and less varroa-friendly
- for the beekeeper, it is really easy to fully close a hive, and/or regulate ventilation
- etc...

Anyway, you'll gather that I think it to be rather an interesting idea.

You'll note I say "interesting", not "good" - only as I (and you) will not be able to judge if it's good until or unless we try it...

... which I am doing this year. I bought some intrances and some seconds boxes in the Thorne sale, and am in the throes of giving it a crack. The one thing I am doing though is using deeps as supers above the brood... thereby giving myself myriad options in relation to vertical splits and other manipulations, and the possibility of constantly cycling the brood each year onto freshly drawn comb.

Anyway...

Owners of Abelo poly hives, and those familiar with the arts of Eastern European beekeeping will recognise that there are already precedents for the use of small entrances throughout the stack, and also e.g. related techniques (none of which I can remember) for mitigating cast swarms.

I know it's the 'standard', and I know that this alone makes it a compelling choice in this increasingly godforsaken country, but I do find it depressing that some intelligent alternatives or adaptations to the BS National design are not given more respect before they are plopped on from a great height by the self-annointed 'great and good'

Diatribe over. Good night

Circumstances meant that one of my colonies overwintered in an a
Abelo box with the trapezoidal hole open as the only entrance.
The bees have thrived, but in my "wisdom" I recently "upgraded" them to a conventional entrance.
Your thoughts make me (boy)wonder if I should reconsider this move.

 

[blackcloud]

Id imagine you'd have to think things through before using a snelgrove board