Bee stings and reaction with medication

[Norton Caff]

I am researching for a short article for a newsletter about reactions to be stings when taking medication. Illo's posting which mentions Ibuprofen has triggered this interest. I remember reading elsewhere on the forum that some other medications can cause problems. Google hasn't helped so I wondered if you folks could give me information on this. I don't want to be melodramatic but informative as not everyone knows about this problem until it affects them or someone they know.
Thanks

 

[AdrianSmith]

I am researching for a short article for a newsletter about reactions to be stings when taking medication. Illo's posting which mentions Ibuprofen has triggered this interest. I remember reading elsewhere on the forum that some other medications can cause problems. Google hasn't helped so I wondered if you folks could give me information on this. I don't want to be melodramatic but informative as not everyone knows about this problem until it affects them or someone they know.
Thanks

I've got no experience of this, but it's worth noting that you can search this forum without using Google.
The ibuprofen issue, and a suggested link with some heart medication, comes up in the following thread: http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19284&highlight=medication&page=2
I did like the following quote from that thread :
"As I downed the vodka I watched the nettle rash disappear as though by magic .................... I have since read that alcohol neutralises the effects of bee venom !"

There are quite a few related threads, some talking about beta blockers and the like and one has the line "DICLOFENAC SODIUM...has been associated with an increased severe reaction to bee stings".

Google finds similiar discussions like the following from 2003:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-195531.html

Adrian

 

[Queens59]

Morphine - if I have taken it anything up to an hour before inspecting - if stung I swell to Amazonian proportions, and can be certain of an infection bad enough to require antibiotics...

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Morphine - if I have taken it anything up to an hour before inspecting - if stung I swell to Amazonian proportions, and can be certain of an infection bad enough to require antibiotics...

Wow! Impressive!

Any chance of caturing it on YouTube next time?

Dusty

 

[Illo]

I am researching for a short article for a newsletter about reactions to be stings when taking medication. Illo's posting which mentions Ibuprofen has triggered this interest. I remember reading elsewhere on the forum that some other medications can cause problems. Google hasn't helped so I wondered if you folks could give me information on this. I don't want to be melodramatic but informative as not everyone knows about this problem until it affects them or someone they know.
Thanks

Take a look at the info in the following links. There are case studies that implicate ibuprofen (and by inference other drugs in the same class; non-steroidal anti inflammatory drugs or NSAIDs), but to the best of my knowledge there have been no systematic studies, either preclinical (I.e. in vitro or in animal models) or clinical (in humans) to ratify these findings.

Case studies are usually cited as weak evidence, with well controlled, preferably randomised studies required for a higher level of certainty.

Narrative on the existing evidence:
http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/PUarticles/bee.htm

Case report by Bernard and Kersley, British Medical Journal (Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1986 February 8; 292(6517): 378–379.) describing the cases in question. the case studies also include supporting references, and are available as free PDF download from the BMJ.:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1339355/pdf/bmjcred00220-0022b.pdf

the following is also an interesting review paper, again available as free download, on insect stings and the mechanism of allergy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1289640/pdf/jrsocmed00211-0063.pdf

From each of these you can follow the reference links to additional information. A little light bedtime reading then!

LJ

 

[drstitson]

"if stung I swell to Amazonian proportions, and can be certain of an infection bad enough to require antibiotics..."

Unless you are being "stang"/ off of a horsefly then infection is possible (and the local swelling is impressive; along with weeping wound).

Bee stings - NO.
and drug you've taken will make local reaction worse.
just because you have redness and swelling does not equal infection. the fact it develops over 24-36 hours and takes as long, if not longer to go down, does not equal infection.

allergies do not need antibiotics or cause/result in infections.

problem is most docs do not see whole evolution of stings. and don't understand that the history of sting explains the condition. it's not redness and swelling secondary to a wound (cellulitis ie an infection). failure to understand basic pathologic principles by the medics. dolling out ABs for such simply helps spread resistance of bugs carried on your skin.

the other problem is that the current generation of medics are poorly educated and poorly trained. A colleague has just written an excellent microbiology handbook for medics - first thing he has to explain in it is what is and is not infection!!!!! and that is aimed at people with 5A* and 5-6 years at medical school plus X years postgrad.

 

[Karol]

"if stung I swell to Amazonian proportions, and can be certain of an infection bad enough to require antibiotics..."

Unless you are being "stang"/ off of a horsefly then infection is possible (and the local swelling is impressive; along with weeping wound).

Please also add that wasp stings have a high propensity to cause infections especially later in the season. When wasps hunt they will visit faecal matter and carrion and drag their stingers through this material picking up all sorts of pathogens which then migrate and populate their poison sacks. Infection in wasp stings is relatively common and delay in treatment can result in serious complications including the need for surgery and amputation.

Bee stings - NO.
and drug you've taken will make local reaction worse.
just because you have redness and swelling does not equal infection. the fact it develops over 24-36 hours and takes as long, if not longer to go down, does not equal infection.

In the absolute majority of cases in bee stings but there will always be a small risk of infection. Shouldn't the advice be that if after 36 hours the swelling remains the same and the wound feels hot, that medical advice be sought?

allergies do not need antibiotics or cause/result in infections.

Hmmm! Possibly a sweeping statement. Doesn't it depend on whether or not the infective agent is the allergen?

problem is most docs do not see whole evolution of stings. and don't understand that the history of sting explains the condition. it's not redness and swelling secondary to a wound (cellulitis ie an infection). failure to understand basic pathologic principles by the medics. dolling out ABs for such simply helps spread resistance of bugs carried on your skin.

Agreed but ABs also have anti-inflammatory action so will have therapeutic benefit (albeit unintended) in reducing swelling and redness.

the other problem is that the current generation of medics are poorly educated and poorly trained. A colleague has just written an excellent microbiology handbook for medics - first thing he has to explain in it is what is and is not infection!!!!! and that is aimed at people with 5A* and 5-6 years at medical school plus X years postgrad.

Not just with medics! See this in all the health care professions. I blame commercialisation of uni's. Striving for profits drives down the quality of further education. Quite scary really as the old school qualifieds age and retire!

 

[drstitson]

"Doesn't it depend on whether or not the infective agent is the allergen?"

name one.

 

[Queens59]

Dr Stitson - I wait- I watch the area - if it is hot/spreading and blotchy I contact the Dr - the Dr looks at it and says 'Oh well Sarah, infected again eh? Didn't realise Beeking was a dangerous hobby'. One infection took 3 weeks and numerous batches of tabs to clear...I don't just think oh look - I think I am infected - I am told so by a suitably qualified person...and when I see the bee land and sting I tend to know it is not a horsefly?? Sorry Doc...

 

[madasafish]

Gin in liberal quantities replaces painkillers and has -or appears to have - no noticeable interaction with bee venom. Taken with Schweppes Tonic - which contains quinine - it protects against malaria and in moderate quantities makes the world appear a far less terrifying place.

It also - unlike beer - does not lead to swelling of the abdomen and weight gain... Hogarth got it all wrong - a vile calumny..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane

Hiuc! or is it Hic?

 

[Karol]

"Doesn't it depend on whether or not the infective agent is the allergen?"

name one.

Of the top of my head; Mantoux.

Then there's this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6982789

More recently; http://apallergy.org/DOIx.php?id=10.5415/apallergy.2013.3.2.120

 

[Queens59]

I have been so wrong all these years - Thanks Madasafish!!

 

[madasafish]

I have been so wrong all these years - Thanks Madasafish!!

Gin also ensures your liver lasts - by pickling it

 

[thorn]

Not just with medics! See this in all the health care professions. I blame commercialisation of uni's. Striving for profits drives down the quality of further education. Quite scary really as the old school qualifieds age and retire!

And not just health care professionals. You can add lawyers, and for the reason given above.

 

[Norton Caff]

Thanks for the references everyone. I usually search within the site using its own search engine. I'd looked at the site and elsewhere, the trouble for me was knowing what the question was! Now I have some reading to do.