bait hive

[burren]

Hi all
i tried a bait hive this year for the first time. I had it placed for the last 3 or 4 weeks. It is a small nuc size box with drawn and old foundation, 3 frames of such and dummy boards to fill and laced with lemon grass oil. I could not find a place high enough for it an it fell off a small wall last week (was still empty then) so I left it on the ground 40 ft ish from small apiary of 4 hives. Today I noticed bees going inside for the 1st time.

I opened it up to see 20 or so bees on the frames. They were mostly on the middle frame on which they had put some honey and capped it. It wasn't a huge amount and was roughly centered at top half of the frame.

Are they just scounting or are they getting ready to move it? No queen or eggs obviously. Do you think they where mine and just nosey? What do you think will happen?

 

[enrico]

I think it is unlikely those are even honey bees! They wouldn't be leaving anything on the frames! All sounds suspicious to me! More likely to be robbing anything that is there!
E

 

[burren]

Thanks Enrico
Why did they put the honey there? Those frames were empty and dry before.

 

[enrico]

I can't believe they did! I have never known it!
E

 

[burren]

Its true!

Am having a strange day though, see other thread to see what I did next!!!!

 

[oliver90owner]

Only three deep feames, size-wise?

Shirley you are not expecting any decent sized colony to take up residence?

Likely a tiny cast swarm, hardly big enough to expand, but they might - while likely not fast enough to be able to resist robbing or wasp attack, and not be viable for the winter - without your intervention.

I think there was a queen (may have been out on a mating flight), there were rather more than twenty bees.

The alternatives arethey are bumbles on a second round in the season or there were more bees and most have absconded for a better sized residence.

Let us know what you actually have after a few days.

I think you noticed for the first time, not that it was the first time for the bees. They have likely been in there for best part of a week, possibly more.....

That sized bait hive is, frankly, a waste of effort space and time.

 

[burren]

thanks O90O
I have been checking that box every few days and has been empty at last check on 30th june. Def seen 4/5 bees entering today so lifted the lid to check and saw the others. I was going to put another 2 frames in as soon as I saw any action around the box which was today. Are you saying a nuc sized box will or wont do ( obviously when full of frames) as a bait hive?

 

[oliver90owner]

Are you saying a nuc sized box will or wont do ( obviously when full of frames) as a bait hive?

Read my post again. Particularly the last sentence.

 

[enrico]

He means....yes, it is too small so it won't do!
E

 

[burren]

Thanks o90o

I was under a misapprehension that a nuc size would do initially. Thanks now I know. I will change it. thanks Enrico too

 

[Dan Job]

If you have a read up the recommended size for a bait hive is around 40 litres... Approx the size of a 14x12 brood box.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Burren, I have trapped loads of swarms using nucs. If you are from the Burren you can take it that homes for bees are far and few between and believe me nuc boxes are well received by swarms in such areas, even though they are NOT the preferred size - too small. Go neiri leat.

 

[pargyle]

A nuc is largely useless as a bait hive ... read the bait hive bible here ~
https://ecommons.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf

 

[SixFooter]

A nuc is largely useless as a bait hive ... read the bait hive bible here ~
https://ecommons.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf

Not true. I have open 5 frame nucs, open national hives and the recommended 15" plywood cubes with 15cm entrance. I get swarms coming in to all of them.
I would say the cubes are slightly more popular than the national hives which are more popular than the nucs, but all get lots of scouts from time to time and swarms have come to them all. it is worth putting out whatever you have available IMHO

 

[pargyle]

Not true. I have open 5 frame nucs, open national hives and the recommended 15" plywood cubes with 15cm entrance. I get swarms coming in to all of them.
I would say the cubes are slightly more popular than the national hives which are more popular than the nucs, but all get lots of scouts from time to time and swarms have come to them all. it is worth putting out whatever you have available IMHO

Well bees will always prove you wrong whatever you do ... so perhaps 'largely useless' was too strong ... but the evidence (even your own experience) is that the 40 litre box is the most des res for a swarm looking for a new home so, if you are going to the trouble of putting out a bait hive then why not go for the optimum size and increase the odds rather than as the OP says he used 'It is a small nuc size box' ?

 

[burren]

thanks all for the advice. SHE.. lol did "use a small nuc size box". It was all I had. I will try to use a national when I have a spare one. But will post again if anything moves in, in the meantime!

 

[oliver90owner]

Just think about it simply, just for a change.

Any decent prime swarm will come from a hive with single brood and supers, or bigger. That prime swarm, made up of approx half the bees in the parent colony will not fit in a five frame deep national nuc hive with any spare capacity. Simple as that. The nucs are OK for the puny prime swarms and for casts.

Which do you want to attract? Only the small casts or any of all of them? Pargyle is right when he says 'largely'. Three casts is likely no better than a sigle good prime. A laying queen, back into her stride in few days - rather than waiting umpteen weeks for brood from a cast (that is if they actually stay in the first place!)

 

[pargyle]

SHE.. lol did "use a small nuc size box".

Sorry ! Gender bender ....

You can make up a bait hive from just about anything ... redundant estate agents boards held together with silver tape are light, can be knocked up in a few minutes to the right size. Even a cardboard box with a waterproof covering will do the trick if it's in the right place with a bit of swarm lure in it and an old bit of brood comb. Some people have used those poly boxes that broccoli gets delivered to greengrocers in as they are spot on the right size.

They are only a trap, not a hive, the bees are only going to stay in there for more than a day or two at most. SO ... for once ... SIZE MATTERS !

RAB has said it all ...