Bailey comb exchange for swarm control?

[Finman]

Finman,

May could be the height of swarming in the UK. The OSR is likely finished (unless we get another season like last year). Once again the problem of trying to keep bees by dates, not prevailing conditions. The OP will be back after holiday and blaming us for the havoc in the apiary or perhaps back to a bunch of unmated queens (as in the last coule of seasons).

Thanks PAL! Very usefull information.

Your writing is pure nonsense.

Punch of unmated queens? In 2 weeks it is absolutely impossible, that if you nurse hive and it starts at once to make queens.

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[oliver90owner]

Finski,

As usual, tunnel vision!

If you actually read and understood my post you would not be making such a fool of yourself. Beekeeping by dates is cr*p. I said the hives were likely to be swarming before then (t h i n k about it - so A/Ss before holiday, so unmated queens on return?)

Durrr!

 

[Finman]

Finski,

As usual, tunnel vision!

If you actually read and understood my post you would not be making such a fool of yourself. Beekeeping by dates is cr*p. I said the hives were likely to be swarming before then (t h i n k about it - so A/Ss before holiday, so unmated queens on return?)

Durrr!

Jep. Light at the end of tunnel. Is it train? No it is Oliver!

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[itma]

Sticking to the thread ....

Amari has 7 colonies on "Nationals"

Single brood? And a half? or Double?
Single is an invitation to swarm for most current english bees.
Changing that ought to be the first thing.


If any bees are producing swarm QCs the day before your holiday, do an artificial swarm, ASAP, as normal.
If not, then giving them a couple of frames of empty drawn comb in the broodnest, withdrawing whatever to make room for it (stores frames ideally), should mean that they ought not to have got to sealed QC stage by the time you get back (maybe 15 days later) -- wouldn't it?

And I'd suggest that your first opening of the hives should provide the opportunity for removing some empty comb (if you don't already have any available) while stores are low and before colony expansion is properly under way.
You can get a couple of frames drawn before brood space becomes in any way critical.

Of course if you are intending to inspect the weekend before a fortnight's holiday, and then not until the weekend after your return -- that could be a *four* week gap, which would be pushing it any way you try IMHO.

 

[Swarm]

You rather answered your own post just above.

Do that and she will not be leaving in the next fortnight (with a Q/E below her).

Thanks Oliver
Confession: when I first posted i'd forgotten that QEx goes blow the Queen so as you say good chance that it will reduce or prevent swarming. I think I will try it on as many hives I have spare kit for. Posting on this forum certainly makes one regret wooly thinking!

Still no guarantee though, I've done the same only to have them go anyway. They left the original queen above the excluder.

 

[oliver90owner]

My guarantee was in that part of my post which was not quoted.

Here was the next sentence: 'Problem will be if they are already in swarm mode.'

I had hoped te OP would understand that.

 

[Swarm]

Quite.

 

[Goran]

My guarantee was in that part of my post which was not quoted.

Here was the next sentence: 'Problem will be if they are already in swarm mode.'

I had hoped te OP would understand that.

When all preemptive measures didn't result in delaying swarming ( usually here happens before or right in acacia), some beekeepers use Pellet ( Frank Chapman Pellet) method . They leave it that way, and later when moving to new forage usually unite and have extra strong colony for sunflower, heather, honeydew, etc.. Some of them does even colonies aren't going to swarm.
As I am stationary and acacia is my "grail" I just nuc them as all. But this Pellet method is tempting for me and have more options to play..
Hope this isn't off topic and help somehow..

 

[VEG]

can you tell me more of this method as the name is one i have not heard of

 

[Goran]

Later, now I have to go. Or someone else who know also can tell before.

 

[Walrus]

When all preemptive measures didn't result in delaying swarming

So basically I think this means capturing the swarm(s) and putting into an empty hive?

 

[Amari]

Sticking to the thread ....

Amari has 7 colonies on "Nationals"

Single brood? And a half? or Double?
Single is an invitation to swarm for most current english bees.
Changing that ought to be the first thing.

Single BBox with super of sugar (doubtless rapidly disappearing -I haven't looked) fed in the autumn below. My bees (said to be Buckfasts) are very non-prolific and never fill more than 6 frames with brood. Thus I have not used more than single BB for a few years.They rarely swarm but all did last year! However 5 working hives produced 200lbs OSR honey and 2 hives moved to heather produced 100lbs so I am happy with their productivity.
Thanks for all these suggestions re transferring brood. The interesting conundrum remains: with Bailey comb exchange, which I want to do anyway, I will have a queen on one frame of brood in a BB full of foundation with an opening to the outside. The rest of the colony is underneath and below a QEx which is there to stop the Q visiting the lower BB. They too exit via the same opening by coming up through the QEx. Thus if the Q is in swarm-mood she is free to leave the hive - but will she now that she is in a BB with 10 frames of foundation..............?

 

[Black Comb]

As Rab said above, it is not essential to move the entrance to the upper box.
The NBU fact sheet says it is recommended to stop them storing pollen in the bottom box, but not essential.

If you leave the entrance at the bottom it's only for 2 weeks, so I would go with this.

 

[itma]

Thus if the Q is in swarm-mood she is free to leave the hive - but will she now that she is in a BB with 10 frames of foundation..............?

Oh yes.
Q running out of *laying* space (= empty drawn comb) is a common swarm trigger.
Foundation ain't laying space ... not till its drawn.

If its really true that these bees "never fill more than 6 frames with brood" then there's 5 other frames in those National BBs.
If you were to reduce them to 'only' 3 stores frames in the BB, you'd have the space for the 2 frames of drawn (empty) comb (positioned contiguous with the brood nest) that I was proposing, without running a risk of them starving during the fortnight away.

Queen age is another swarm promoter. The older the queen, the more 'easily' they will go into swarm mode.
So, are there any that are going to be 3? Specially close attention and requeening would be in order ...

 

[Goran]

I hope I can transfer idea of that how these beekeepers do it. I believe it is not by word from a book, but that's beekeeping..
When colony is about to swarm transfer almost complete brood up in third box on top separated from honey super with division board ( or now bottom board). Usually entrance is 180 degrees turned when new queen goes for a mating flights to ensure it. Usually are left two " good looking" queen cells. Of course up usually two frames of food..

So down is left queen with few frames ( 2-3) with youngest brood and queen. The rest is filled with good looking built frames, maybe added few frames with foundation, of course some food. Desire for swarming is turned off.
Forgot on bottom box is queen excluder then honey super..

One option
Later when is time to move for next forage you just unite two colonies ( the bees won't fight themselves, just will decide which queen will stay alive with them-usually young one). This way you got extra strong colony..

Other of many options are at your imagination

These are not my experiences, but if I have time this year I will make some splits this way..

If You think this is wrong and cannot be used for your conditions please delete this post. Vanity isn't my quality

 

[oliver90owner]

Goran,

That is what is usually referred to as the Demaree method. Should work a treat.

 

[Goran]

Then we learn the name of it wrong. Thanks a lot, I will read that also.. I have to learn it right and see the differences if are any..

 

[Amari]

Thanks for all your advice . I find the options quite complex and will try and summarise them tomorrow on paper and decide on the next move.
All these permutations of what to do explain why beeking is such a good hobby IMHO.