Apivar and Supers?

[Pope Pius IX]

Hello everyone,

The school I work for now has four hives and I need to consider varroa treatment (as routine, rather than because of a noted presence of varroa.)

The hives currently have honey for harvesting and I won't be able to harvest it for two weeks. After this, I intend to put apivar strips in the brood boxes. This is because it looks like a simple, straightforward treatment that students at the school should be able to carry out (the hives are basically part of a beekeeping project, and whilst I've not much experience I'm overseeing this and students should be involved as much as possible.

However, I have read that one should not use apivar strips if honey supers are present. My plan was to harvest some honey (the hives each have two supers - I was going to harvest one from each hive) and leave the other for the bees...is this going to be an issue? I haven't been able to find out if "don't use when there are supers on the hive" advice is to protect humans, bees, or both. I'm guessing humans (I can't see how apivar would be effective if it wipes out any chance of the bees using their own stores) but I did feel I should double-check.

Additionally, if I am making a huge mistake using apivar, please let me know what you'd recommend instead - I ideally need a technique that relatively sensible 16-17 year olds can use. Cost isn't hugely important but time is - we have about 45 minutes a week.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ericbeaumont]

noted presence of varroa.

If you did see varroa it would be too late and the colony doomed, so unless you intend to go the whole hog and do a sugar-roll test, then treat.

hives each have two supers

How many brood boxes each? If one, yes, you could leave them £350 of honey, or extract it and feed instead £15 of fondant or syrup. If two, likely no need to feed. Ivy is yet to flower and likely to top up stores.

Get them to heft the back of the hive by an inch with one hand: how heavy?

leave the other for the bees...is this going to be an issue?

Not for the bees, but honey may be moved by bees before next spring, and you won't know whether tainted honey will end up in a 2024 super. However, if the honey is capped I cannot see that the risk of contamination is great.

mistake using apivar

No. It leaves least residue and is effective. Consider a different treatment next season to avoid the development of resistance by varroa.

Where are you in Surrey?

 

[Swarm]

Supers must be removed before you treat with Apivar. Time is ticking by when you consider it is an eight week treatment plus a recommended two further weeks, the eggs in cells now are your winter bees.

 

[Murox]

Apivar contains amitraz and can be used any time of year with no temperature constraints. It may well ‘taint’ the wax and certainly no supers should be left on the hives. The strips are usually left in for 10 weeks during Autumn treatment.

Bees can overwinter on single national brood. The best winter insulation for bees is more bees so aim to have that onebox “overflowing” with bees. A colony will need around 20 kilos of stores in the hive to survive until the spring. An 11 frame national brood box with 8 to 9 frames of stores is enough for winter, a full (DN) deep national frame holds ±2.7kg, so 8 of those will provide 21.6kg,

 

[hemo]

School beekeeping and summer extraction falls at the wrong time of year with summer holidays, all events occurring now about 4 weeks too late especially with the raising of the winter bees to see them through till spring.
One needs a treatment that overtly doesn't affect queens or brood in the latter part of the season which is now or one needs to think about changing the routine and treating early August and take the honey off sooner.
How many colonies ?

One reason why quite a few use sublimination as the treatment course, quick,effective and short time period. Though PPE and safegaurding is required for a school apiary but little different to handling other treatments .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

wouldn't put the stuff anywhere near my bees to be honest
On top of that - resistance in mites has been reported

 

[Pope Pius IX]

If you did see varroa it would be too late and the colony doomed, so unless you intend to go the whole hog and do a sugar-roll test, then treat.


How many brood boxes each? If one, yes, you could leave them £350 of honey, or extract it and feed instead £15 of fondant or syrup. If two, likely no need to feed. Ivy is yet to flower and likely to top up stores.

Get them to heft the back of the hive by an inch with one hand: how heavy?


Not for the bees, but honey may be moved by bees before next spring, and you won't know whether tainted honey will end up in a 2024 super. However, if the honey is capped I cannot see that the risk of contamination is great.


No. It leaves least residue and is effective. Consider a different treatment next season to avoid the development of resistance by varroa.

Where are you in Surrey?

Thank you for all this!

The four hives each have two supers and one brood. So I think I'll extract the honey and put in fondant/syrup. We'll not be at the hives until Wednesday, but what would I be looking for in terms of weight?

Good tip on the changing treatment, thank you.

We're near Sutton.

 

[Pope Pius IX]

School beekeeping and summer extraction falls at the wrong time of year with summer holidays, all events occurring now about 4 weeks too late especially with the raising of the winter bees to see them through till spring.
One needs a treatment that overtly doesn't affect queens or brood in the latter part of the season which is now or one needs to think about changing the routine and treating early August and take the honey off sooner.
How many colonies ?

One reason why quite a few use sublimination as the treatment course, quick,effective and short time period. Though PPE and safegaurding is required for a school apiary but little different to handling other treatments .

Four colonies. I will look into sublimation but yes, there's the inevitable forest of paperwork to go through if the students are going to do it. PPE won't be a problem, but the paperwork will be problematic...

 

[Pope Pius IX]

Apivar contains amitraz and can be used any time of year with no temperature constraints. It may well ‘taint’ the wax and certainly no supers should be left on the hives. The strips are usually left in for 10 weeks during Autumn treatment.

Bees can overwinter on single national brood. The best winter insulation for bees is more bees so aim to have that onebox “overflowing” with bees. A colony will need around 20 kilos of stores in the hive to survive until the spring. An 11 frame national brood box with 8 to 9 frames of stores is enough for winter, a full (DN) deep national frame holds ±2.7kg, so 8 of those will provide 21.6kg,

Thank you. One question though - at what point should supers be added to a treated hive?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

they won't be needed now until next spring

 

[Murox]

I suppose the answer is when you have removed the treatment. I use chemicals in autumn, so there won't be any super s going on till next year.

 

[ericbeaumont]

looking for in terms of weight?

Heavy, moderate to very.

By mid-October (ish) the hive ought to be difficult to lift with one hand without saying 'Blimey! That's heavy!'

Ask them to use hook scales on the box regularly and let us know the result. Opportunity for a graph!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36229359...aXkuxfnR16&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Heavy, moderate to very.

By mid-October (ish) the hive ought to be difficult to lift with one hand without saying 'Blimey! That's heavy!'

Ask them to use hook scales on the box regularly and let us know the result. Opportunity for a graph!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36229359...aXkuxfnR16&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

For consistency of measurement using luggage scales, wooden hive floors can be fitted with screw in eyes to connect to the luggage scales. Poly floors require a broad hook to engage with the handholds in the sides of the floor to avoid damage. (Of course the school 6th form physics/craft department might like to make you load cell platforms and use data loggers. )

 

[Pope Pius IX]

Thanks all. I will harvest from one super from each hive, maybe 1.5 supers if they are indeed heavy, and then then apivar will be added. The remaining supers will be marked so that the honey isn't consumed by humans, then at some point before spring taken, cleaned and put back on.
If that's very wrong, please let me know...

Weighing scales and hanging hooks are on my purchase list...

 

[blackcloud]

It might not be you in spring.
You don't know what's round the next corner.
Minimise potential confusion.
Take all the honey-that was the object of putting the supers on.
Feed them sugar for Autumn and start afresh in spring with untainted kit.

 

[Pope Pius IX]

It might not be you in spring.
You don't know what's round the next corner.
Minimise potential confusion.
Take all the honey-that was the object of putting the supers on.
Feed them sugar for Autumn and start afresh in spring with untainted kit.

Makes sense, thank you!