Another manipulation done in haste .

[fullframe45]

I think i have made ham fisted manipulation in haste.
I checked on of my DB colonys today and found quite a lot of cups some charged and two nicely formed Q cells. No sighn of Q or eggs but some lava several days old and the bees were not very happy when i inspected them. So i am asuming some have gone with the Q although the hive was still quite full. Due to certain circumstance i have been unable to inspect THIS hive till today last time was about a week ago.
In my haste i introduced a laying Q along with the frame she was on from a nuc that i was keeping in reserve ,I dont have the equipment on site to newspaper unite either or the aerosol spray and unfortunatly. I now think i should have just left them to rear their own Q instead of medaling and am now worried they may not except the Q. Have i made a real hash of this . Thank you.

 

[Boston Bees]

I fear your queen is no more, but you may get lucky

As an aside, did you take all the Q cells down?

 

[The Poot]

Often the least intervention is the best policy. I also reckon your queen will likely be a goner.

 

[Swarm]

Adding a laying queen to a colony that is expecting a virgin can be a problem, better to make them hopelessly queenless first.

 

[Busylizzie]

Talking about a queen being a goner, can I ask a question? Last Thursday a hive swarmed. I caught it in a nuc box and left them to settle while I did the school run at 3pm.
I looked in the hive the swarm had vacated to find it full. wall to wall bees. They were very feisty. They had 2 supers on which I'd taken 6 capped frames from the week before. I'm short of equipment so grabbed a brood box, put in 3 frames of capped brood (no eggs seen but I can miss them) I didn't see the white queen that was present last week. I then put some drawn frames in added a queen excluder above the supers, added an entrance eke and left them to it. I thought if they didn't swarm again then I'd get new brood in 1 box and nothing in the other. All that seems to happen is the top box is full of nectar. I haven't spotted a queen in there. The supers are having little or no activity. The bottom brood box is very flighty bees but not as bad as last week. No signs of a queen in there. I had a spare virgin queen so put it in a queen cage in bottom box. Next day bees were all over the box. I could move them off easily so I let her out and they balled her. Question 1) does this mean there is probably a queen in there? Question 2) Can I set up the top brood box on a new floor and manage it as a separate hive, will the foragers just go back to the original hive? or will some stay to cover the capped brood. Than next week if they seem queenless add some eggs and if they draw q cells can I merge a yellow queen in a nuc? Long winded I know sorry.

 

[Boston Bees]

Talking about a queen being a goner, can I ask a question? Last Thursday a hive swarmed. I caught it in a nuc box and left them to settle while I did the school run at 3pm.
I looked in the hive the swarm had vacated to find it full. wall to wall bees. They were very feisty. They had 2 supers on which I'd taken 6 capped frames from the week before. I'm short of equipment so grabbed a brood box, put in 3 frames of capped brood (no eggs seen but I can miss them) I didn't see the white queen that was present last week. I then put some drawn frames in added a queen excluder above the supers, added an entrance eke and left them to it. I thought if they didn't swarm again then I'd get new brood in 1 box and nothing in the other. All that seems to happen is the top box is full of nectar. I haven't spotted a queen in there. The supers are having little or no activity. The bottom brood box is very flighty bees but not as bad as last week. No signs of a queen in there. I had a spare virgin queen so put it in a queen cage in bottom box. Next day bees were all over the box. I could move them off easily so I let her out and they balled her. Question 1) does this mean there is probably a queen in there? Question 2) Can I set up the top brood box on a new floor and manage it as a separate hive, will the foragers just go back to the original hive? or will some stay to cover the capped brood. Than next week if they seem queenless add some eggs and if they draw q cells can I merge a yellow queen in a nuc? Long winded I know sorry.

I am completely confused

Your hive swarmed, so your white queen has gone with them, and is now presumably in the nuc (did you not know that the mated queen leaves with the prime swarm?). Your original hive is therefore queenless, with queen cells developing, and will hopefully make a new queen and get her mated over the next month. In the meantime, plainly no new eggs will be laid in your original hive. As such, the capped brood that has hatched out above your queen excluder will leave space that the bees will of course fill with nectar (they like to put nectar at the top of the hive) - what else did you think they could do up there?

You then put a virgin queen in a cage. They have their own queen cells, and this queen is not only virgin (so of no use to them) but smells foreign, so they killed her, naturally enough.

What you needed to do is reduce the queen cells in the original hive to one, and leave them alone to get on with making a new queen. Or, if you want to make increase, split the original hive in two, making sure there are an even split of bees and resources in both bits, and leave one queen cell in each hive. No need for queen excluders, introduced virgin queens, entrance ekes, anything like that.

 

[fullframe45]

Boston, of the two capped Q cells i destroyed one and put the other in a nuc along with a cpl of frames of brood etc and moved away The charged cells i did go through them quickly( not the correct way to do it i know) and destroyed what i saw. Unfortunatly i could have missed some. Not a good way i know,but i thought i will go back in three days and destroy the rest and THEN let them alone to do what they wanted to do before i messed it up.

 

[Busylizzie]

I am completely confused

Your hive swarmed, so your white queen has gone with them, and is now presumably in the nuc (did you not know that the mated queen leaves with the prime swarm?). Your original hive is therefore queenless, with queen cells developing, and will hopefully make a new queen and get her mated over the next month. In the meantime, plainly no new eggs will be laid in your original hive. As such, the capped brood that has hatched out above your queen excluder will leave space that the bees will of course fill with nectar (they like to put nectar at the top of the hive) - what else did you think they could do up there?

You then put a virgin queen in a cage. They have their own queen cells, and this queen is not only virgin (so of no use to them) but smells foreign, so they killed her, naturally enough.

What you needed to do is reduce the queen cells in the original hive to one, and leave them alone to get on with making a new queen. Or, if you want to make increase, split the original hive in two, making sure there are an even split of bees and resources in both bits, and leave one queen cell in each hive. No need for queen excluders, introduced virgin queens, entrance ekes, anything like that.

Sorry for the confusion. I expected the white queen to have swarmed but they returned and I didn't see the white queen in the box so maybe she died and they produced a virgin without me seeing a queen cell. There aren't any q cells in either brood box. I will wait to see if I get a laying queen develop in one of the brood boxes as I expect there to be a virgin in one of them. I originally just split the hive to give them more room and stop them swarming. I'll be patient and see what happens. Thanks for your input.

 

[fullframe45]

Not wishing to drag this up again,but i thought id give an update.Last night i watched a video from Black Mountain Honey how to introduce a mated Q to a Queenless hive ,I think the link was on here also. Anyway it prompted me to have a look at the hive i introduced the Q to yesterday.I didnt think i had owt to loose. I saw her (white marked )walking around on a frame and the bees just pandering to her.Oh What Joy. I just shut up the hive and went home.As i said just an update but i will be more cautious next time. Thank you.

 

[Boston Bees]

Not wishing to drag this up again,but i thought id give an update.Last night i watched a video from Black Mountain Honey how to introduce a mated Q to a Queenless hive ,I think the link was on here also. Anyway it prompted me to have a look at the hive i introduced the Q to yesterday.I didnt think i had owt to loose. I saw her (white marked )walking around on a frame and the bees just pandering to her.Oh What Joy. I just shut up the hive and went home.As i said just an update but i will be more cautious next time. Thank you.

Great outcome! Thanks for the update

 

[fullframe45]

Thank you for commenting,I think i was lucky this time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I saw her (white marked )walking around on a frame and the bees just pandering to her.Oh What Joy. I just shut up the hive and went home.As i said just an update but i will be more cautious next time. Thank you.

Phew!
Bees never stop surprising. Relief all round.