An Experience of Anaphylaxis

[susbees]

Roy - Thank-you, I am a new bee-keeper and until now used walking boots and lons socks...but I will be investing in a pair of wellies in double-quick time...and maybe go back to leather gloves instead of the marigolds...?!

Tight fitting washing up gloves over sting-pheromone drenched non-sensitive leather gloves any day. But wellies or rigger boots (not black) are very sensible. My partner had a nasty experience with several furious bees running up his walking boot laces and up inside his suit when we tried to put a block in to move a (crazy) hive too late one evening.

 

[Roy S]

Tight fitting washing up gloves over sting-pheromone drenched non-sensitive leather gloves any day. But wellies or rigger boots (not black) are very sensible. My partner had a nasty experience with several furious bees running up his walking boot laces and up inside his suit when we tried to put a block in to move a (crazy) hive too late one evening.

I think that making recommendations to other beekeepers regarding their own PPE is a bit dodgy, at the end of the day I've seen bad beekeepers using no gloves and excellent beekeepers using gauntlets....each to their own....end of.

At the end of the day, its our safety AS WELL as the welfare of our bees we need to ensure.

As for pheromone drenched gloves....cant remember the last time my bees even tried to sting my gloves, so they cant be that bad.

Whatever makes you more comfortable and relaxed, as well as safe will make you a better beekeeper.

If I'd followed some peoples comments I may not have been here now if I'd have been stung badly while on my own.

I used to wear nitrile or marigolds, and to be honest hated my hands sweating and looking like prunes. I always found the bees stung more if the gloves were torn I presumed this to be the smell of sweat mixed with whatever else is inside the gloves!!!!.....Yummy!!!!

 

[Bcrazy]

Interesting yes very interesting.
Glad you came through OK.

 

[Ouarda]

Thanks Roy for the warning as a newbie it's much appreciated that you took the time to post your nasty experience.

I'm glad that you're well again

 

[Adam]

Thank you Rab 100%

It may look impressive to see a beek with no gloves or veil on but one sting is enough to kill you..

This thread seems to have a positive feedback on it. I'm sorry, but their is no good reason not to work bare handed. I got stung on my belly last week, through a bee suit and T-shirt. So gloves or no gloves are irrelevent if that can sting through our bee suits (mine is a Sheriff).

The gloves are not the only single point of attack - and if you wear leather gloves with disposables over - they'll get you somewhere else. You are all insinuating that it's foolhardy to not wear gloves. Well, if they can sting through a suit then you are ignoring a further risk which is you should be double suiting as well. The fact is, regardless of your attire, their remains a residual risk of stinging. Bees get in your car, they sneak in whilst you de-suit afterwards etc.

I've been to hospital with bee stings, and I know the drill in hospital.

The first line of defence (you will already know this if you are filling in risk assessments for shows etc) is gentle bees - not protection. All your apiary bees (and home bees) should have been selected for low aggression. The reasons are not only for your own personal safety, but that of passers by, heaven forbid trespassers, but also emergency services, neighbours, etc. if they have to come near your hives for some reason. They have no protection and if you need it to manage your bees, than you are the liability for using inappropriate stock, not your lack of protection.

Working bare handed most of the time, allows you to instantly assess the temperament of a stock, much easier than if you wear gloves. I hear people come up with all sorts of excuses on this but it's not the case in my experience. No gloves = instant feedback on temper. If the colony is aggressive = cull the queen.

Of course, we are not out to delibrately get stung and I find a bad colony, of course, I glove up - but my procedure is to then deal with the queen.

I can't understand how we've got into this glove obsession when we all wear cotton bee suits, which a bee is more than capable of stinging through. Not only that, bees CAN get down your wellies and sting. We all have venrable points when beekeeping and it's the temper of the bees that should be your first line of defence.

Adam

 

[Cazza]

Hi Adam
I cannot agree with your no gloves policy.
One sting IS enough to kill you. Having spent 3 days in hospital with anaphylaxis I am taking NO chances. I may look like Michelin man when I beek but better safe than sorry.
I do not need bare hands to assess the temperament of my bees, looking and listening is all that is needed.

I know opinions differ which is fine but I'm on the side of sensible precaution.
Cazza

 

[Adam]

Hi Adam
I cannot agree with your no gloves policy.
One sting IS enough to kill you.

Correct, and given they can get you anywhere not just on your hands, you simply should not be beekeeping under those circumstances. There are plenty of times where you are venerable, exiting and entering your vehicle. Putting your suit on and off. As I said they can get down your wellies, or stuck in a fold of your suit unnoticed to sting you later. You can never get 100% protection. It's simply not possible. Like I said, you can get stung through a suit. (which indeed I did last week).

There is always a residual risk. Wearing gloves is to focus on a small part when you need to look at the wider picture.

Particularly when harvesting, even if supers are cleared, bees are attracted to the smell. Yee gods, don't tell me everyone wears a bee suit and gloves whilst extracting? And yes, I'd been rushed in to A+E straight through reception (without even stopping to give my name!) which is a first and connected up to all the gadgets and pumped full of stuff.

I've been stung by a bee when extracting. I've been stung moving empty equipment (presumably a scout bee). You simply cannot protect yourself against every eventuality. If you are at risk, due to a serious previous reaction don't even kid yourself a pair of gloves of any type is sufficient - there are too many other times you could get stung.

Adam

 

[Cazza]

You simply cannot protect yourself against every eventuality. If you are at risk, due to a serious previous reaction don't even kid yourself a pair of gloves of any type is sufficient - there are too many other times you could get stung.

Adam

This is absolutely undeniably true and I don't think anyone is kidding themselves BUT it's about risk reduction and protection reduces risk....so...I'm sticking to gloves.

Cazza

 

[susbees]

So of those who've had the awful experience of hospital visits, how many have investigated desensitisation? And who has been stung since and had a minor reaction?

Roy have you had your tests yet?

 

[Adam]

So of those who've had the awful experience of hospital visits, how many have investigated desensitisation? And who has been stung since and had a minor reaction?

Roy have you had your tests yet?

My doctor would not prescribe an Epipen aftwerwards. He didn't believe I had a true anaphalctic reaction (which I agreed with him ). I believe two aspects aggrivated it, firstly, Ibruprofen* (which I now understand is a big no no for beekeepers) and secondly I rode to work afterwards on my bicycle, thereby distributing the venom about.

*See the link posted previously http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1339355/pdf/bmjcred00220-0022b.pdf amongst others.

It took many weeks before I was stung again, and I had someone to accompany me for all those occasions. My subsequent reactions have all been what I describe as minor if anything at all.


Beecraft, or BBKA or someone really should make more of the research into the issues with Ibuprofen, Diclofenac & Beta Blockers. The evidence is all there now I think.

Desensitisation is really only for those with a major allergy.

Adam

 

[Roy S]

So of those who've had the awful experience of hospital visits, how many have investigated desensitisation? And who has been stung since and had a minor reaction?

Roy have you had your tests yet?

I'm still waiting for my tests but hoping it will be soon. I have to agree with the need for gentle bees, as are mine, but I also go helping a lot of other members of our BKA and sometimes this is with aggresive colonies.

The reason gloves have been focused on so much is that these are generally first in line for attack if bees are in a stroppy mood, I dont need to find out that they are stroppy when only wearing nitrile glove thank you very much!!!

Yes they can and do sting through a bee suit but I've found this to be a pretty rare occurance, and again can be avoided if you know you are dealing with really aggresive bees by wearing more layers, and dealing with the offending colony firmly and quickly in achieving your goals.

would like to be sure that I COULD cull the queen before they get a chance to cull ME....hence the gloves

I am pretty sure it was a reaction caused by the Ibuprofen but until 100% sure I cant treat my welfare like has been suggested by wearing thin or no gloves at all!....seems to me a bit like russian roulette!!

I cant see why there is so much opposition to people using gloves??? how would you explain this to a widow or children of a beekeeper encouraged to go gloveless??

And before anyone says it, yes I could give up beekeeping and I suppose thats an option, but I'd rather not give up a craft that has kept me enthralled for over 2 decades just because its now been deemed that to be a proper beekeeper you need to go without gloves or wear gloves that provide next to no protection at all.

Yes there is risk to us all in every aspect of our lives, but as has been said its all about reducung those risks to what we find personally acceptable.

Peer pressure kills more people throughout the world in many professions and hobbies,, lets not let beekeeping be one of them

stay safe people

regards

Roy

 

[Bcrazy]

Members
This thread is becoming boring, one sting can kill, so? I think it is up to the individual if they wish to wear leather , marigold etc and up peer pressure.
There are many more circumstances where one can bee killed or seriously injured. So please we have had enough of "One Sting Can Kill"

PS I do feel sorry for anyone that suffers from bee stings.

 

[oliver90owner]

boring

Then don't read it! Simple! Why you did not think of that?

This post may save a life, more important perhaps than explaining an artificial swarm to umpteen different posters, or discussing bee space and brace comb?

RAB

 

[Mike a]

I posted on another thread about two stings I took on my ankle the other day this has now got my wife really worried about me keeping our bees. She thinks I have a serve reaction to stings now after seeing my feet two days on.

Sorry about the ugly feet pictures.

and

Feels like pins and needles the whole time the range of ankle movement is restricted. Afterwards I had a minor headache and feeling a little nauseated at times.

All things considered I should of known better.

 

[steve1958]

I find that following a single sting the reaction I get tends to follow a set pattern
1. Pain
2. Initial swelling at the point of entry over the next 30 minutes or so
3. Burning pain in the surrounding tissues (cold water helps relieve this).
4. Swelling of the surrounding area over the next few hours (as Mike's ankles show).
5. Over the next 24 - 48 hours the swelling remains
6. Then as the swelling reduces there is a redening of the skin, which is accompanied with irritation.
7. Itchy skin for a day or so afterwards.

I find that usualy the effects are subsiding after 3 days and not really noticable.
However
That is for just one sting
Several stings = increased poison into the system.

 

[victor meldrew]

Benadryl cream with calomine works like a dream , I carry a tube with my beekeeping gear .

John Wilkinson

 

[Mike a]

I couldn't angle my leg to see the worst part when I took the earlier pictures. Will post one more picture once I get a chance to upload it. Looks like a nasty rash / blister.

 

[mannky]

In Roy's case things happened t quick but is it the case that you smoke the area you have been stung to disguise the alarm pheromone?

 

[mannky]

M I believe two aspects aggrivated it, firstly, Ibruprofen* (which I now understand is a big no no for beekeepers) and secondly I rode to work afterwards on my bicycle, thereby distributing the venom about.

*See the link posted previously http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1339355/pdf/bmjcred00220-0022b.pdf amongst others.

It took many weeks before I was stung again, and I had someone to accompany me for all those occasions. My subsequent reactions have all been what I describe as minor if anything at all.


Beecraft, or BBKA or someone really should make more of the research into the issues with Ibuprofen, Diclofenac & Beta Blockers. The evidence is all there now I think.

Desensitisation is really only for those with a major allergy.

Adam

This is a very useful tip I am always taking pain killers and did not know about the connection

 

[Mike a]

and

As I already had an appointment to see the Doc she looked at my leg and instantly prescribed some anti-biotics saying it looked reasonably normal for multiple bee stings but the amount of puffiness and swelling she didn't want to take any chances.