An alternative to Western Red Cedar?

[Surreybeekeeper]

Hi all,

With this economic climate the way it is I have been looking at alternatives to the Red Cedar hives. I have heard about Pine hives and also White Cedar hives (slightly cheaper and lighter than Red).

Does anyone know of the positives and negatives of these alternative woods.

Interested in your thoughts.

James

 

[moby]

I haven't had a problem with ply as an alternative, the only downside is that it is just a bit heavier.

 

[RoofTops]

Poly.

 

[For want of a better word]

Poly.

Do they repeat on you?


( bought a double poly mating hive to try)

 

[The Cumbrian]

I have no experience of the woods but as nobody else has really touched on your question you may find the answer by comparing the two woods.

www.connectedlines.com/wood/index.htm"]/http://www.connectedlines.com/wood/index.htm

The above site will give you a good comparison of the properties of each wood.

HTH

 

[Surreybeekeeper]

Thanks for that link, much appreciated, I will take a look.

James

 

[region2]

/http://www.connectedlines.com/wood/index.htm"]www.connectedlines.com/wood/index.htm"]/http://www.connectedlines.com/wood/index.htm

R2

 

[Black Comb]

I have some old pine hives (creosote so still OK) and they are noticeably heavier than cedar. I have no knowledge of white cedar.

I think you will find that the "optimum" option is to buy cedar seconds from the big suppliers. Big T have a sale on now so you can compare prices.

 

[jakethedog]

I think you will find that the "optimum" option is to buy cedar seconds from the big suppliers. Big T have a sale on now so you can compare prices.

agree with the sale suggestion but T'ornes online sale finished yesterday. Paynes is due to start on (I think) the 26th of this month.

 

[The Cumbrian]

I have some old pine hives (creosote so still OK) and they are noticeably heavier than cedar. I have no knowledge of white cedar.

As I said I don't have knowledge of White Cedar but I think you will find it is slightly lighter than Red Cedar 21- 22lbs/cu ft as opposed to 23lbs/cu ft.

So for practical purposes the same for a finished article.

 

[Poly Hive]

Pine works very well and to make it cheaper...

Buy dressed all round, biscuit joint it or use a 6mm ply tongue to joint it, then if needed rip to size. I had a dovetail router jig, so dovetailed my boxes. If making Smith or Langstroth very very simple.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Douglas or larch is another alternative,and more durable than pine.

 

[dpearce4]

Douglas or larch is another alternative,and more durable than pine.

Im not good for hives i would rot to quickly.

 

[The Cumbrian]

The website I suggested shows White Cedar as durable Douglas Fir and Larch as moderately durable. Non of the pines it lists is better than moderately durable with 2 as non durable.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The website I suggested

Is not very good.


Larch for boats no.....larch is used for planking.
Larch low bending.....Steamed for use in boat building.
Larch shingles, no......yes its used for shingles.

But that site is talking about western larch.....

Use european or japanese larch....next best thing to cedar regards durability,i have quite a few hives made from it.

http://www.ashs.co.uk/content/blogcategory/17/67/

 

[Surreybeekeeper]

Everything I have read seems to point to White cedar being lighter than red cedar though perhaps not quite as durable. Am thinking it may make a good and cheaper alternative but wanted to check your thoughts first. Pine looks to be okay for a very cheap alternative so interesting to see view points.

Thanks all....

James

 

[The Cumbrian]

Is not very good.

Use european or japanese larch....next best thing to cedar regards durability,i have quite a few hives made from it.

Interesting. A number of other sites also list Larch (yes European and Jap) as only at best moderately durable. Dependent on which part of the trunk it is cut from.

Page 8 of this document shows it graphically.

http://www.woodknowledgewales.co.uk/woodknowledgewales/files/Larch%20Report_Apr2011.pdf

 

[Hivemaker.]

Dependent on which part of the trunk it is cut from.

You can only use heartwood if you want durability,sapwood is none durable,and western red cedar sapwood is also none durable,and will rot fast.

 

[The Cumbrian]

You can only use heartwood if you want durability,sapwood is none durable,and western red cedar sapwood is also none durable,and will rot fast.

I am well aware of that. What surprised me was the amount of what they referred to as "juvenile wood" inside the heartwood which drops from moderately durable to slightly durable.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Yes the pith,that is no good either,usually squared out, average a couple of inches,also not very strong, and not used,well used in the fire,same for cedar and most other trees.