Alternative to association membership of bbka

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Ivor Kemp

House Bee
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
228
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0
Location
Poole, Dorset
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
4
If this has been discussed before my apologies.

Our Association has its AGM on Friday and we are discussing the thorny question of whether to remain affiliated to BBKA.

BBKA have just put their Association Membership fees up by £2 per person and many members are rumbling about this as well as their attitude towards the pesticide issues.

The main argument in favour of staying seems to be the insurance, so I was just wondering if other forum users have found alternatives to this insurance, and your feelings on this subject generally.

Many thanks.
 
I think there is an alternative insurance through the biobees website
 
look at our association we have no affiliation to the BBKA and we get our insurance from the NFU. a link to them is HERE
 
BBKA have just put their Association Membership fees up by £2 per person and many members are rumbling about this as well as their attitude towards the pesticide issues.

The main argument in favour of staying seems to be the insurance, so I was just wondering if other forum users have found alternatives to this insurance, and your feelings on this subject generally.
Insurance wise, there are two completely separate aspects. For 3rd party and liability insurance BBKA act as agents for a group policy through brokers called Towergate. They are commercial brokers, try asking. From what accounts I remember insurance is only a small part of the fee, less than a pound per member per year. The "Friends of the Bees" (biobees) association has a similar policy for members, last I heard through a sports insurance broker called Daredirect. There are non BBKA affiliated local associations. From memory Bedford is one, Leicester and Rutland another. You could try contacting them to ask who they use - I see Winker notes NFU mutual above.

The other insurance is the disease insurance through BDI. Not directly linked to BBKA, I don't think the underwriting laws would allow it. BDI is "owned" by the associations who subscribe. although BBKA provide facilities such as some web presence and reports through BBKA newsletter. Several associations are BBKA affiliated but don't take the BDI insurance. Or counties leave it to local associations to decide to opt in or out. The argument is largely that it's poor value; limited payout for limited categories which are actually a low risk. It's also very restrictive in that if any members on a shared apiary are under-covered the whole insurance is invalidated; a lot of effort and strife to keep up cover yet payment could be denied for an oversight.

Over the years the BBKA has had lots of disaffiliations and re-associations although they are not well publicised in their archives. Practically, it's up to any local association to decide if a central co-ordinating body is what they want or if an existing body provides value for money. I think there's a strong argument that the BBKA is taking on more than many association members actually want. For instance one of the justifications for increasing the subvention is that the cost of producing and posting the newsletter has risen. But many would rather see the newsletter cut costs by online distribution or reduce scope so it doesn't duplicate material in independent publications such as Beecraft. The BBKA sell large foreign made cuddly bees at 39.95. Is the whole retail effort not only a waste of effort and money but detrimental to the image of beekeepers? Should the BBKA be seeking corporate affiliation at all? Even if it's not as controversial as Bayer, any sponsorship compromises the lobbying message.

There is an unintended consequence of any affiliate structure that those who see a greater role for a national body are attracted to participate in it. Those who argue that it should leave more to local associations tend to put their efforts into building the local associations.
 
look at our association we have no affiliation to the BBKA and we get our insurance from the NFU. a link to them is HERE

Beds advertises BBKA exam groups...so who pays the extra fee as a non-member of the BBKA? Just out of interest.

If your BKA is a sub-set of Dorset Ivor it would mean detaching from Dorset and whatever support they provide as well?
 
Currently it is £24 for a full member per annum.

The proposal is to raise this to £26 to cover BBKA increase.

This covers insurance for up to 3 hives. Further hive insurance is:
4-5 £2.00
6-10 £5.25
11-15 £7.75
16-20 £9.50
21-25 £11.10
26+ £13.60
 
Currently it is £24 for a full member per annum.

The proposal is to raise this to £26 to cover BBKA increase.

This covers insurance for up to 3 hives. Further hive insurance is:
4-5 £2.00
6-10 £5.25
11-15 £7.75
16-20 £9.50
21-25 £11.10
26+ £13.60
You are confusing the 3rd party insurance and the BDI disease insurance. The BBKA subvention (17 pounds next year IIRC) includes 3rd party insurance - the BBKA accounts suggest the insurance is under a pound of the subvention fee. The BDI (2 pounds for up to 3 hives) is additional (but may not be listed separately on the membership form) and the association as a whole can subscribe or not.

Added: As the Furness beekeepers web site makes clear, an association can be independent of the BBKA but still offer BDI insurance to the members: http://www.furnessbeekeepers.co.uk/membership.html
 
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Not sure I am confusing it. The new breakdown is:

BBKA £17 (£2 rise)
Dorset BKA will be £6 (£1 rise)
Therefore £17 + £6 = £23 + £4 (Association Fund) = £27.
The Committee suggests our subscriptions be increased to £28 being a £1 increase in the Association Fund.
 
Beds advertises BBKA exam groups...so who pays the extra fee as a non-member of the BBKA? Just out of interest.


Not sure, i have not done any of the exams nor do i know the price of them, sorry
 
Not sure I am confusing it. The new breakdown is:

BBKA £17 (£2 rise)
Dorset BKA will be £6 (£1 rise)
Therefore £17 + £6 = £23 + £4 (Association Fund) = £27.
The Committee suggests our subscriptions be increased to £28 being a £1 increase in the Association Fund.
That's probably typical. There are three tiers to pay subventions to, BBKA, County (Dorset) and local. The BBKA is a uniform capitation nationally, the county/local split depends largely on structure, a federation of independent associations (like Middlesex) has a relatively small county subvention but larger local sum. And also typically, the "annual membership" includes two different insurance payments but they are not separated out in the proposed "annual membership" set at 28 pounds on the application form. It's not separate because you don't have an individual opt in or out, only collectively as an association.

The 3rd party and product liability insurance is included in the BBKA sub. I don't have any old BBKA accounts to hand but as I recall the 3rd party insurance premium was in the teens of thousands for 20 thousand or so members. If you left BBKA, you might want to replace that with a separate policy. The starting point is somebody like NFU mutual as used by Bedford, Daredirect as used by biobees, Towergate or some other broker. Chances are it's a little more expensive per head because of the overheads for a smaller group but not excessively more.

The BDI insurance (I'm guessing) is subscribed to at county level. So 2 pounds of your 6 will go to BDI for disease insurance. Many associations don't separate it out because it's subscribed to on an association wide basis although the premium is capitation based. Some county associations (I heard including Yorks for example) leave it to the local associations to decide. That is, at whatever association level it's two quid for every full member whether they have bees or not. If they have more than three hives the premiums increase to the individual. The "gotcha" is that if you take in a swarm or split to over the declared number you invalidate not only your BDI insurance but anyone else's who shares an apiary with your colonies, such as an association apiary. In practice I suspect most beekeepers think they are covered by BDI on shared apiaries, when they are probably not.

There is nothing to stop an independent association subscribing to BDI, just like Furness do. There's also nothing to stop any BBKA affiliated association not subscribing to BDI as several either don't or plan to drop it next year. But that is an association decision, not individual.

There are also associations who have made the collective decision to subscribe to other publications and bodies. some include a Beecraft subscription in the annual membership. Some may get Beekeepers Quarterly or Bees for Development, but I don't know any offhand. When the round of increases starts to pile up, it's time to start considering the options and what the membership think is good value and worth paying for. I think it's only fair that the position is made clear so that members can collectively decide.
 
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That is a fantastic, very helpful alanf.

Any objections if I read that virtually as it is at our meet? I won't include your name obviously.
 
That is a fantastic, very helpful alanf.

Any objections if I read that virtually as it is at our meet? I won't include your name obviously.
Use what you like, it's all from various posts here and discussion locally over the past couple of years. I looked into it from the BDI angle before, at least one neighbour association is leaving BDI next year. I think we should seriously consider leaving too.

Your other factor is your local association constitution. It will change how much effort it is to make any changes in affiliation. You pay county subs, so you're not directly affiliated to BBKA. Some counties have local branches with relatively little autonomy, leaving BBKA would first need a split in the county (unless the entire county left). Some counties are federal in structure with member associations largely autonomous, that is each registered as charities, separately controlling premises, owning equipment etc. A federally linked association can change affiliation however it likes.
 
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crikey - epsom BKA costs £49 pa (inc paper beecraft and 3 hive BDI).
Similar here, the Beecraft on paper sub is 27 pounds individually or 50 for 24 months. They don't quote a group rate themselves, but I have seen 24.30 quoted elsewhere. What's becoming apparent is that finances typically look something like 25 for Beecraft, 17 for BBKA, 2 for BDI. That leaves around a fiver to cover everything the county and local associations might need.

You're penny pinching over hiring halls or spending hours collecting a couple of quid per head for talks. Every time you take on the risk that a snow flurry could empty the local treasury. There are people willing to put in the effort locally to provide direct benefits, teaching, organising, manning stalls, counting pennies trading, all on a shoestring. I can see why it might be resented that others in the chain help themselves to a steady income. Especially when now a sizeable and increasing chunk of that is going to be passed straight to a newly privatised Royal Mail.
 
Oddly or timely this turned up today "Gwent Beekeepers Association - looking for charity insurance?"

"If you’re looking for insurance for your charity or community group, then you’re in the right place. We work with all types and sizes of charities, clubs, community groups, and social enterprises. "

Tennyson Insurance Limited working together with Zurich
The Barn Drayton Lane Chichester West Sussex PO20 2EW
Existing customers: 0845 600 8744
New customers: 0845 082 2446
Fax: 01243 210112
 
Similar here, the Beecraft on paper sub is 27 pounds individually or 50 for 24 months. They don't quote a group rate themselves, but I have seen 24.30 quoted elsewhere. What's becoming apparent is that finances typically look something like 25 for Beecraft, 17 for BBKA, 2 for BDI. That leaves around a fiver to cover everything the county and local associations might need.

You're penny pinching over hiring halls or spending hours collecting a couple of quid per head for talks. Every time you take on the risk that a snow flurry could empty the local treasury. There are people willing to put in the effort locally to provide direct benefits, teaching, organising, manning stalls, counting pennies trading, all on a shoestring. I can see why it might be resented that others in the chain help themselves to a steady income. Especially when now a sizeable and increasing chunk of that is going to be passed straight to a newly privatised Royal Mail.

Alanf. BC paper and dig for £24.30, BKQ is £20.
Ivor you're not the only one's discussing this. Our AGM is in Nov and both the BBKA and WBKA have been invited to send delegate(s)
 

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