Aggressive 2nd Gen Buckfast

[hedgerow pete]

i did not know that buckfast abby had stopped. was there not some bloke on the tele last year that had taken over the breeding ap's to keep it going or is it now completely farmed out to others to breed them

 

[drstitson]

there was a thread a while back that mentioned that'd they'd sold off a lot of gear.

according to website they know concentrate on teaching.

 

[Norton]

There is a large and important difference between species and subspecies.

Species are a natural unit that is fixed and only alters over very long periods of time, if at all. Subspecies are a human division, are not fixed and can easily be altered.
Best regards
Norton.

 

[sugarbush]

I think it was actually Bill Ferguson who was telling me about the licensing. That they used to be licensed by the Abby to breed buckfasts in accordance to their guidelines, but now that they are not licensing breeders any longer, it is uncertian how long they will be allowed to call their bees Buckfast.

Is Buckfast actually a subspecies at this point that will be able to be genetically identified in the future or are they doomed to vanish from the map?

In the US; with chickens, you can cross breed and interbreed a certain trait and as soon as you are able to stabilize the trait you can register as a breed, Is the same true for bees? If so, what is the regulatory body doing the registration? if not, we need one.

 

[Norton]

You are confusing breeds and strains with subspecies!

 

[VEG]

so will they now be called the bees formally known as buckfasts?

 

[oliver90owner]

The general way to define these 'breeds, strains, variants, whatever', as within a species, is the ability to inter-breed successfully. Different species cannot interbreed successfully.

Think dogs, or humans for that matter, can all inter-breed and produce fertile offspring. Some may be true to type (pedigree), some mongrels (let's just be thinking dogs here). There may be practical difficulties (rotweiler and one of these handbag miniatures), but that is beside the point.

Some different species can inter-breed but the offspring will be sterile (Tigons and Ligers are examples).

RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Some different species can inter-breed but the offspring will be sterile (Tigons and Ligers are examples)

Or the kangaroo x with a sheep, you get a sterilised woolly jumper.

 

[Crg]

As part of our beginners course we promote the local or native bee

If you are involved in teaching the beginners I hope you don't confuse the beginners into thinking local and native are the same thing.

you are not going to have this with buckfast bees as they will go from one extreem of gentelness to a level of aggression that is frightning.

In my local area, if you keep Buckfast bees you'll be fine, in fact as long as you keep any bee but AMM influenced bees you'll probably be fine. Bringing in any AMM influenced bees to this area would be bordering on criminal.

 

[oliver90owner]

Or the kangaroo x with a sheep, you get a sterilised woolly jumper.

In the plant world a breeder crossed a Blackurrant bush with a Dahlia.

Started flowering after a couple of years.

Then flowered twice a year, the monthly, then weekly and....


scroll down
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Finally it became a Dahliacurrents

 

[mbc]

Bringing in any AMM influenced bees to this area would be bordering on criminal.

I've sold many amm to people in greater london with only possitive feedback ( so far ! )
Writing nonsense as if you have knowledge or experience is edging the illegal IMHO

 

[Crg]

I've sold many amm to people in greater london with only possitive feedback ( so far ! )
Writing nonsense as if you have knowledge or experience is edging the illegal IMHO

While I think you're probably highly irresponsible, I do agree writing nonsense as if you have knowledge or experience is edging the illegal.

 

[keith pierce]

If you are involved in teaching the beginners I hope you don't confuse the beginners into thinking local and native are the same thing.


Not in england, but in ireland i would be happy enought to put the two of them side by side

 

[Crg]

Not in england, but in ireland i would be happy enought to put the two of them side by side

and I would be happy enough to say it's often close enough in Ireland.

But it's important to point out local and native isn't the same thing in England. Particularly in the urban areas. If an area is mostly one strain (say Buckfast or Italian), that's what is local, regardless of whether it's native or not.

Just as it'd be very selfish and antisocial of me to ship my Buckfast queens to a strongly AMM part of Ireland, the reverse is also true. Shipping black bees from Wales, to London would be just as irresponsible and antisocial.

 

[keith pierce]

> If an area is mostly one strain (say Buckfast or Italian), that's what is local, regardless of whether it's native or not.

Ok, so how many years does an import have to be in the area before it is consider a local, and can they ever be considered local if they are been topped up again and again with more of the same from abroad

 

[Hivemaker.]

>
Ok, so how many years does an import have to be in the area before it is consider a local, and can they ever be considered local if they are been topped up again and again with more of the same from abroad

Suppose this could apply to many things,animals,plants,people...no such thing as local anymore,it's global.

 

[sugarbush]

By AMM you guys are referring to Apis mellifera mellifera correct? What we would call German in the US.

Just want to sort this out.

 

[Mrs Soup]

We have three splits from our, probably imported, dark coloured queen. All open mated with whatever is around. All are different colours, one dark like mum, one more orange, and one somewhere in between. The orange one is definitely more feisty then the others, isn't genetics interesting.

 

[mbc]

and I would be happy enough to say it's often close enough in Ireland.

But it's important to point out local and native isn't the same thing in England. Particularly in the urban areas. If an area is mostly one strain (say Buckfast or Italian), that's what is local, regardless of whether it's native or not.

Just as it'd be very selfish and antisocial of me to ship my Buckfast queens to a strongly AMM part of Ireland, the reverse is also true. Shipping black bees from Wales, to London would be just as irresponsible and antisocial.

Do most of these "pure" Buckfast or Italian or Carniolan bees that reside in our capitol originate from there ? I think not, but to introduce bees from Wales is irresponsible and antisocial ?!
Nice of you to share you're well thought out thoughts with us

 

[Norton]

Another point largely forgotten is that most of the AMM is from imports of French and Dutch stock after the 1947 and 1962 winters that decimated bee colonies throughout the UK. So, even though they are AMM they aren't really native are they. Buckfast was present in the UK before these imports were made.
Best regards
Norton.