Age at capping?

[Poly Hive]

I am preparing a hand out for a beginners class and was rattling off the numbers then thought hmm better double check this so looked in two books.

One agrees with me that the capping age for Queens and Workers is day 8.

Another and newer book says day 9 for both.

Wikipedia says day 9 for the worker and 7.5 for queen so a right dogs breakfast.

Thoughts?

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

8 for a queen
8/9 worker

 

[Finman]

.
http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.cfm?number=B1045

worker 8 days
queen 8 days

Look table 1.
.

MAAREC: On the third day, the egg hatches into a tiny grub and the larval stage begins.

Worker, queen, and drone cells are capped after larvae are approximately 5 ½, 6, and 6 ½ days old, respectively.

so worker 8.5 days and queen 6+3=9 days
.

Common problem in larva growth is that " bee larva grows 1500 fold". That is queen larva.
Worker larva grows 1000 fold.

.
.

 

[Chris B]

For the queen I am certain it is not a fixed number, judging by the number of times things don't go quite as expected with queen rearing, and then the next time they do. If pushed I would say 8 and a bit.

 

[Finman]

one thing more


When I graft small larvae, I graft on sunday afternoon, the first queens emerge on thursday evening 17 th day from grafting. It tells too, that the larvae have been one day old.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

I am preparing a hand out for a beginners class and was rattling off the numbers then thought hmm better double check this so looked in two books.

One agrees with me that the capping age for Queens and Workers is day 8.

Another and newer book says day 9 for both.

Wikipedia says day 9 for the worker and 7.5 for queen so a right dogs breakfast.

Thoughts?

PH

Insect larval development is temperature dependent. Although bees try to maintain a constant temperature around the brood they can be a few degrees out which can delay or speed up larval development and thus the capping. The different temperatures in different areas of the brood nest are also thought to create differences in the bees that develop. I think Seeley(?) showed that winter bees are incubated at lower temperatures and take longer to develop than summer bees. Tautz has shown differences in bees developed at different temps http://www.pnas.org/content/100/12/7343.full.pdf but neglects to give any detials of extended or accelerated capping times.
I and others have noticed that queen cells can capped at 7 or around 7 1/2 days on occasions...difficult to be more accurate.
Best to say that 8 days is an average but conditions can accelerate or retard this timing.

 

[REDWOOD]

8 for a queen
8/9 worker

I read somewhere that a cold brood nest can affect the growth rate of larvae and as a result capping them off will take longer
Just Read BeeFriendly's post lol

 

[For want of a better word]

8 for a queen
8/9 worker

However this may be species and environmental conditions dependent.

Books say 16 days for queen to emerge... but in practice this seems to be 15.5 days for Aml but 17 to 18 days for Amm
Just personal observation... in incubator.

Nothing NEEDS to be set in stone!

Yeghes da

 

[REDWOOD]

We can assume that an -Ish is required when predicting capping times then

 

[Finman]

one thing more


When I graft small larvae, I graft on sunday afternoon, the first queens emerge on thursday evening 17 th day from grafting. It tells too, that the larvae have been one day old.
.

I wrote wrong now. it is 12 th day. grafting to emerge.

 

[For want of a better word]

I wrote wrong now. it is 12 th day. grafting to emerge.

And there's me thinking perhaps you had a bit of Cornish in you... an extra digit or two? ... will hatch drecktly....
Tis all ackademic anyway ... as long as them hatch into nice queens!

Nos da

 

[Poly Hive]

Academic? LOL

MKe thinks some reading of American follies is due.... look up Africanised bees and the American border.... Oh no perhaps that will bring up Trumptown..

Try the drone project. Or how half a day makes an odds to the tune of several million.

Ph

 

[Finman]

And there's me thinking perhaps you had a bit of Cornish in you... an extra digit or two? ... will hatch drecktly....
Tis all ackademic anyway ... as long as them hatch into nice queens!

Nos da

However better than rural thinking in town

 

[busybee53]

Insect larval development is temperature dependent. Although bees try to maintain a constant temperature around the brood they can be a few degrees out which can delay or speed up larval development and thus the capping. The different temperatures in different areas of the brood nest are also thought to create differences in the bees that develop. I think Seeley(?) showed that winter bees are incubated at lower temperatures and take longer to develop than summer bees. Tautz has shown differences in bees developed at different temps http://www.pnas.org/content/100/12/7343.full.pdf but neglects to give any detials of extended or accelerated capping times.
I and others have noticed that queen cells can capped at 7 or around 7 1/2 days on occasions...difficult to be more accurate.
Best to say that 8 days is an average but conditions can accelerate or retard this timing.

I have read this too - may well have been Seeley, but you put it so much better than I would have done.

 

[Little John]

I would say that one of the principle causes of the apparent discrepancy is that the time-slices being used are too large.

For example, two eggs may be laid just a minute or two apart - and they may develop at exactly the same rate. But, supposing that your measured 'day' begins and ends at noon (say), then one larva may be capped on one day (a minute before noon), the other on the next day (a minute after noon).

The reality is that development was both started and finished within minutes of each other, but are recorded as being a day apart. Using hours instead of days would improve the measurement, using minutes would be even better - albeit the measurement numbers being employed would be then quite large.
LJ