After uniting

[parkranger]

United a Q- colony with a Q+ colony two weeks ago with newspaper and queen excluder with Q- on top. The unite was a success but I am not sure how to proceed, given that I would rather overwinter as a single broodbox. Both boxes have lots of bees and can't fathom out the best way to reducee down to a single box. The Q excluder is still in place (to prevent the Queen moving up) although maybe I should remove it and let them all move up and remove the bottom box when all brood has emerged. I could overwinter as a double but its a large space to keep warm and have only overwintered on singles before.The advice of more experienced beeks would be appreciated.

 

[Amari]

United a Q- colony with a Q+ colony two weeks ago with newspaper and queen excluder with Q- on top. The unite was a success but I am not sure how to proceed, given that I would rather overwinter as a single broodbox. Both boxes have lots of bees and can't fathom out the best way to reducee down to a single box. The Q excluder is still in place (to prevent the Queen moving up) although maybe I should remove it and let them all move up and remove the bottom box when all brood has emerged. I could overwinter as a double but its a large space to keep warm and have only overwintered on singles before.The advice of more experienced beeks would be appreciated.

Certainly remove QX - over winter it doesn't matter which box the Q is in and if QX left in place the bees may follow the stores and leave the Q behind. If there are 'lots of bees ' in both boxes squeezing them into one might not be a good idea. Compromise would be BB & super.
I have always thought it must be difficult to have sufficient stores in a single National BB over a long winter so I feed into a super and then put the super beneath the BB.

 

[masterBK]

I tend to winter all my colonies on a double and have not seen the problems some on this forum believe to be the case. In fact I rarely lose colonies in winter (except for the occasional drone layer ) and hardly ever from isolation starvation. If there are loads of bees and lots of stores in both boxes simply remove the excluder.

If you wish to winter on one BC then wait until all brood in top BC emerged. You know where the queen is so leave that BC on the floorboard but remove any empty combs from it (being careful to shake/brush all the bees back into the box). Now go through other BC and select the best combs of stores and put them in the BC with the queen. Shake/brush the rest of bees from the surplus combs so that they join their queen .

 

[oliver90owner]

One box only? You pack that box with any brood and full combs of stores. Job done. No other sensible way, really?

What you do with the other box is up to you. Extract full frames, put it under the other box, store it with fully capped stores and feed any open stores to the colony in a box under the brood (widely spaced to avoid wax moth).

One box should be more than adequate for the winter months and the rest would be available for spring expansion. Rather depends on what the stores are, mind. Presuming above that you have not been feeding them sugar syrup. Things would be a little different if you have.

As long as you understand that most winter colonies can be housed in a single box - although a few cannot. The winter cluster is never really too big, unless man-made, which would not be good, as I see it.

I have never united large colonies for winter as it is generally not particularly advantageous; I would distribute such a colony between a couple of weaker colonies if they were all quite strong.

 

[beeno]

Hi Parkranger,
You must know the state of both colonies? If queenless hive is broodless, brush all the bees off the comb into top box and take away comb, they will go down into BC. When down you can decide if you want to exchange any store frames and take away top box. Make sure you have a nice warm day to do it on. Good luck!

 

[enrico]

Hi Parkranger,
You must know the state of both colonies? If queenless hive is broodless, brush all the bees off the comb into top box and take away comb, they will go down into BC. When down you can decide if you want to exchange any store frames and take away top box. Make sure you have a nice warm day to do it on. Good luck!

I don't understand this! He hasnt got a queen less colony! He united them!
I would remove QE, leave two bb. In really early spring remove bottom one which will be empty.
E

 

[Outlander]

If they have gone through the newspaper with out any signs of carnage then unite I would say has gone well. Any bees left in the top can be brushed and knocked into the bottom. Use any spare stores frames if needed, Job done.

 

[richardbees]

ditto Oliver above........I always over-winter on a single bb. The weather looks good for next week so I'd suggest you carefully switch the current top box to the bottom and replace the Qex in between.
Plan on removing it at the earliest opportunity next year as imho double nat bb is too big. Glad the unite worked!

 

[Amari]

ditto Oliver above........I always over-winter on a single bb. The weather looks good for next week so I'd suggest you carefully switch the current top box to the bottom and replace the Qex in between.
Plan on removing it at the earliest opportunity next year as imho double nat bb is too big. Glad the unite worked!

Why retain the QX? Many reasons why not.

 

[richardbees]

Why retain the QX?

because I would remove the lower box at the earliest possibility next year and don't want the Q moving down and laying in it.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I would remove the queen excluder and leave them to it as a double brood. Plenty of stores and bees I assume. They will position themselves in the space available as they see fit. One advantage is that bees are probably better at looking after comb over winter than we are! (They look after it so we don't have to!).

 

[oliver90owner]

Many reasons why not.

OK, give us just a few.

 

[parkranger]

Thanks for the advice and opinions.
Because I have only previously overwintered on single boxes and have had no losses, I would prefer to do the same. When opening after the unite I hoped/expected to see much fewer bees in the top box (thinking that they would have moved down) and was planning to brush them off into the lower box but there just seems to be too many. If I reverse the boxes, retaining the queen excluder, will the majority move up to the queen+ box and allow me to remove the bottom box and then brush them in?.
Rab... they were fed 2:1 syrup during late September before I knew that they were queenless. Both boxes have good stores, mostly capped, some still open and plenty of pollen.

 

[Goran]

I think You don't need excluder ( I think more problem now than use), the queen will remain in upper box ( if you reverse the boxes). We, here usually overwinter on two boxes with BB on top, below empty combs or supplies to be lifted up by the bees - Langstroth..

 

[beeno]

Hi Parkranger,
Thought that was the case thereof my advise. How, sure are you they were Q-?

 

[oliver90owner]

Rab... they were fed 2:1 syrup during late September before I knew that they were queenless. Both boxes have good stores, mostly capped, some still open and plenty of pollen.

In that case you won't be extracting any frames and calling it honey, will you? As I said, things would be different if you had fed them.

 

[Amari]

Many reasons why not.

OK, give us just a few.

'Many': Well, yes, slight exaggeration on my part. Two years ago I had two strong colonies with new Qs and sold one for £250 in the autumn. The other didn't sell. Imagine my chagrin when I opened in spring and found the colony queenless - I had left the QX on by mistake so Q got left behind as bees followed the stores.
One of our forumites paints the wooden frame of the wired QX yellow so that it is easily spotted. Easy to overlook unframed QXs.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but in this case the queen was already in the top box with brood. So no chance of bees deserting her by going up.

The one downside of a box below, with frames close together, is wax moth. I would always space them out to deter same and remove empties for safe storage elsewhere.

 

[parkranger]

Hi Parkranger,
Thought that was the case thereof my advise. How, sure are you they were Q-?

Beeno

100 pct.... and I don't say that often where bees are concerned!

 

[enrico]

Thanks for the advice and opinions.
Because I have only previously overwintered on single boxes and have had no losses, I would prefer to do the same. When opening after the unite I hoped/expected to see much fewer bees in the top box (thinking that they would have moved down) and was planning to brush them off into the lower box but there just seems to be too many. If I reverse the boxes, retaining the queen excluder, will the majority move up to the queen+ box and allow me to remove the bottom box and then brush them in?.
Rab... they were fed 2:1 syrup during late September before I knew that they were queenless. Both boxes have good stores, mostly capped, some still open and plenty of pollen.

You need the box with the most stores at the top......what happens is the bees will start to use the stores from the bottom, the queen will stay with them wherever they are provided you have removed the QE.
In early spring on a cold day gently lift the top box, there will be little heat loss if you are gentle, get someone else to have a quick look in the bottom bb. If it is empty which it probably will be, remove the bottom bb and gently replace the top bb again. If when you start to lift the top bb there are bees clinging between the two brood box's then there is still food in the bottom and it is not ready to remove. I do it every year and rarely do I have any problems. It gives me a chance to give the spare bb and frames a good clean and sort out and use for demaree or as a spare. You can always increase to double bb again if you want later In the new year. This is the simple way to do it!
E