advice re Apidea please

[Heather]

I had to reduce a colony from a Nuc to an Apidea to save it. It had a new Queen but so little workers she didn't lay.
Now beginning to start laying, and will soon need to get back to a Nuc. How do I transfer this little colony to a larger box without losing the brood in the apidea?

 

[itma]

Not normally done, but you can just about wedge 3 Apidea frames into a Nat shallow frame - there were pics on here (Queen rearing section?)
Even then it is a small colony for putting into a shallow as a brood. You'd be thinking about giving them another frame of emerging brood, and plenty stores, at the very least.
If you want to keep them to themselves, maybe better to take out the feeder, stick in a couple more Apidea frames and put the Apidea top-deck feeder on, so you can develop a bigger colony before re-hiving.
You might still be able to get a second-brood chamber for the Apidea (potentially taking you to 10 mini-frames) though those have been out of stock in some places.

Normally, the queen would be introduced to a Q- nuc and the Apidea colony given a new QC to bring through mating.

 

[For want of a better word]

Make up a frame to fit in the nuc with the apidea frame fitted to it... a standard top bar alone will do... tie wraps will secure apidea frame to it OK.....
also set the nuc box under the apidea for a few days first ... before transfer...so bees do not get lost!


You were lucky indeed to have managed to save such a small colony!
Good Luck!

 

[fiftyjon]

You could cut the brood out of each of the Apidea frames and rubber band them each onto the top bars of separate shallow or brood frames and then place them into a dummied down nuc. This will keep the cluster together instead of spreading them along a frame.

Or attach the apidea frames into the shallow/brood frames as per icanhopit, this will likely be easier.

 

[itma]

The photo I remembered
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=308749&postcount=7
note the sawcuts into the sidebars!


Its in this thread which should provide additional relevant info
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22432

 

[fiftyjon]

The photo I remembered
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=308749&postcount=7
note the sawcuts into the sidebars!


Its in this thread which should provide additional relevant info
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22432

Very useful for getting the frames drawn out on full size colonies prior to filling the Apideas with bees.

 

[Heather]

Many thanks for those posts. Sorted me out. And good idea for preparing apidea frames too - I struggle with foundation on those little frames trying to melt wax/join some cut outs from older frames.

The colony belonged to new beekeeper- it was dwindling and queenless so she bought a queen- but then rang me in panic- queen still there but colony down to about 60 bees. She wasnt going to lay in a Nuc with so few bees. I took back to my place popped all in an apidea, with some donated young bees and they seem settled and bringing in pollen etc- but not going to disturb to view for a while- just want to be prepared when I have to move them on. I can donate brood to a polynuc when time is ripe.
She can have back when they are really filling a Nuc.

 

[m100]

Moving three frames from an apidea into a national is not going to work in my experience without throwing in lots more bees from another hive. It barely works with nine apidea frames (apidea + no rear feeder + super = 10 frames)

The method I've used successfully is as follows:

Get a national with at least a couple of drawn combs, the rest can be foundation.

Remove the apidea floor and sit it above a modified crownboard / eke with an entrance in the rim of the eke. (I hold the apidea in place on the crownboard with a border frame of 2 x 1) Use an empty national brood box to fully enclose the apidea and then fit the roof, externally it will look like a double brood.

After a few days close up the top entrance and let them exit via the bottom of the apidea and the main hive box (reduce bottom entrance to a single bee space or use a drilled hole in the top of the hive box)

Continue to feed them and leave them alone for as long as necessary for them to occupy a few frames in the bottom box.

Shake out all the bees from the apidea and fit a piece of queen excluder betwen the apidea and the brood box. Let any brood in the apidea emerge. Finally remove the apidea.

No lost brood and a colony that expands as it wants to.

 

[Merlin]

Hello Martin

I am not sure I quite follow you here, I have merged Apideas into full boxes of frames with no bees before and the problem is getting the small nucleus to descend into the larger new brood box below, so I am keen to see what I can do to improve on this if your method works.
By a "modified crown board" I presume you mean one with the centre cut out to allow the underside of the Apidea box and frames (with the floor removed) to have direct contact with the top bars of the brood box below? given in the second stage of your process you merely close the top entrance and let the bees have access / egress through the brood box below.
If that is the case I cannot understand why you use the top entrance in the Eke for a day or two as the bees presumably have full access to the box below and any access other than that would be through the usual entrance to the Apidea and across the uncut area of the crown board and out of the exit in the Eke.

I have found the Apidea bees will immediately use the bottom brood box for access / egress and if a frame feeder is left in there fairly close to, but not directly under the Apidea it will encourage the nucleus to go down and take up residence below.

Than as you say it is merely a matter of excluding the queen from the Apidea and waiting for the brood to hatch before removing with no loss of brood.

Let me know if I have got this wrong

 

[m100]

I lined up the apidea frames to be directly above the frames in the box below, they extended the comb down to connect to them.

As for why I did the top and then bottom entrance thing, the apidea was originally sat on top of an adjacent national hive and I wanted to avoid moving their entrance too far too soon. I think I was short of hive boxes the first time I did it so I was placing the apidea over the crownboard with no means of replacing and locating the roof. The bees were using a short tunnel from the apidea entrance to the rim of the eke.

But shutting them in and just using the bottom entrance from the start should work, I will try a trame feeder next time though - I was liquid feeding on top of the apidea and it needed topping up far too often.