Advice please on wbc to 14x12 poly

[waverider]

Needing advice on a course of action.
I have acquired some colonies that are WBC that are in a sorry state! I wish to transfer these to National, preferably 14x12 as i have 5 spare 14x12 poly hives and 2 cedar 14x12 in the loft.

Current colonies are:

HIVE 1 NATIONAL
HIVE 2 NATIONAL 14X12
HIVE 3 NATIONAL 14X12
HIVE 4 WBC
HIVE 5 WBC
HIVE 6 POLY NATIONAL 14X12
HIVE 7 WBC
HIVE 8 WBC
HIVE 9 WBC
HIVE 10 NATIONAL
HIVE 11 NATIONAL

I am aware there are several methods such as a shook swarm and bailey change method. The idea of putting a 14x12 (poly) brood box on top of the current wbc may not be feasible due to the size/dimension.

Anyone have experience with this that could recommend a suitable path to follow taking in mind my present colonies?

Thanks.

 

[VEG]

Are they not the same size frames then?

 

[oliver90owner]

As Veg. Just move the frames across from the WBCs to a National format hive. Just do it!

 

[ROACHMAN]

As the other have said, just transfer all frames that have brood and stores to the 14x12 and fill up the remaining space with 14x12 frames with foundation (to the outside of the brood box).

The bees will probably build drone comb on the bottom of the standard frames that can be used as varroa control later in the season.

Work out the standard frames when you can.

Leave it a few weeks before doing it though

Dont bother with shook swarm, too much disruption and not necessary

 

[MuswellMetro]

As the other have said, just transfer all frames that have brood and stores to the 14x12 and fill up the remaining space with 14x12 frames with foundation (to the outside of the brood box).

The bees will probably build drone comb on the bottom of the standard frames that can be used as varroa control later in the season.

Work out the standard frames when you can.

Leave it a few weeks before doing it though

Dont bother with shook swarm, too much disruption and not necessary

agree, but only enough store frames to see them through, any empty can be binned, i might dummy down as well and put a 14x12 frame one side of the brood

 

[waverider]

Thanks for your replies. It was inline with my gut instinct. I had read other methods but felt it was rather invasive!




Thanks again.

 

[VEG]

Moving frames is no more invasive than an inspection really (not at this time of year though)

 

[waverider]

Moving frames is no more invasive than an inspection really (not at this time of year though)

Was not keen to do a shook swarm.

I assume transferring to the 14x12 would be wise to do at the end of the month or would i get away with it at 8 celsius and with some speed?

 

[VEG]

Needs to be done when the temperature is up for a while.

 

[waverider]

ok

 

[ROACHMAN]

No point doing it this time of year, the point of 14x12 is to provide more space for brood and stores. This wont be needed until the weather warms up and there is lots of nectar and pollen to collect, Better to keep them in a smaller brood box so they can keep the space warm, after all its only the beginning of March

 

[itma]

I know of one beek down here who successfully transferred a colony from a truly ratty wooden hive into a new poly one earlier this year - when the weather was rather colder than it is now.
They seem to be doing perfectly well.

It it *needs* to be done, do it.
Otherwise, probably better to give it a couple of weeks.



Dummy board and just add two frames of foundation after removing as many truly empty combs as possible (earlier the better for that).

Use a super with Kingspan, even though its poly, to make it as easy as possible to draw the new comb. Feeding can be important for comb drawing, so rather than using a cover with holes, you likely do have room (at least at the start) for a frame feeder...

To get it drawn quickest, I'd place the foundation between brood and stores, and feed - in order to help get the drawing of the foundation started.
They *will* draw some comb under the short frames.
As long as you handle like topbar combs - keeping the plane of the comb absolutely vertical at all times - the bee-extended frames are OK to handle.
You need to be specially careful with it until it has been stiffened with old brood cocoons. Expect it to be a bit floppy when new.
Where you can get a problem is if they try to build braces between frames so you end up with extended comb that is out of line with the frame.
That can be minimised by interleaving 14x12 and Nat frames as soon as possible. But the mistake to avoid while trying to do that would be to split the brood with foundation. Get it drawn first!
Once your first two frames are reasonably (no need completely) drawn, redeploy them where you think best, and put in two more frames of foundation, again between brood and stores.

My experience was that chopping off 'good' (straight) extension comb is wasteful - because they'll concentrate on redrawing it, rather than working on the foundation! So, learn to live with it (that's not hard), and only trim it if it gets out of shape.
Sure, do a drone-brood-cull for varroa *later* - but not for a good while yet.

Just ensure that HMQ never get cramped for laying space, by running out of empty drawn comb. That (and consequent swarm mode), is the big thing to watch out for.
If need be, remove a stores frame (if you don't have any drawn 14x12 for them), and give her back one of their own drawn Nats, one of those empties that you pulled when you rehived them. Stick that returned empty comb into the middle of the brood nest for maximum relief of 'swarm pressure'.
Better to slip back a frame than to risk them getting the idea of swarming!
Thing is, they only want to draw comb when they *have* to - and with brood build-up and spring nectar storage, the pressure on space can build up and take them by surprise. You have to try to plan ahead - shunting frames around - to get them drawn *before* they are needed.

 

[RoofTops]

If you are transferring them to 14 * 12 brood boxes at some time you are still going to have to get them onto 14 * 12 frames. You can mix the two frames in the same brood box but it can get messy.

One option would be to transfer the current frames into two National supers stacked one above the other on the 14 * 12 floor (unless you have spare brood bodies of course) and then put the 14 * 12 brood body on top filled with 14 * 12 frames and foundation. Thereafter, a normal Bailley frame change.

Personally, I would recommend a shook swarm. It is so counter-intuitive many beekeepers simply can't get their head round the concept but it really does work and the bees will be better for it. I have done many and never lost a colony doing it but I did get healthy bees with a very low varroa count.

 

[itma]

Should have included the note in my previous post that because you are moving from WBC to (nat) 14x12, you are going to have space for one extra frame.

That, plus removing as many totally empty frames as possible, should provide the space immediately for two foundation 14x12 frames and a feeder - and probably need a (14x12) dummy to bookend it as there would be still more space ...