Is there anything I can do to help them...

Last week we decided that one of our two colonies was dead. No sign of the queen, very few bees, masses of dead bodies, no eggs, larvae, or sealed brood.

All that was missing was a slight wind and a little tumbleweed.

We went to our apiary today to retrieve the hive and clean it up for future use. There were still a few flying bees (half a dozen or so) and so we opened the hive with the intention of dismantling it.

To our surprise we saw the queen and about half a frame's worth of bees. No sign of eggs, larvae, or sealed brood still but she was still in there fighting.

So we have gone back tonight and collected the two central frames of the hive, with her on it, along with a couple of honey frames from our stores, and the ever present pollen patty, and have placed them in a nuc box and put them in our shed for the night.

We have only a vague and feeble hope that perhaps she will be better in a warmed environment and nearer better forage...and ever the naive optimists may start laying again. She was great last year.

So way back I think that Rab suggested that we should have combined the colonies to prevent loss of both. Obviously, he was right but we wanted to see how things would develop and hoped for success.

Now that we have one colony doing ok but rather small (we intend to move it to some OSR this week and to swap some store frames for drawn deep brood frames to hopefully make some more brood space and give it a boost) we intend to see if we can help this residual group.

Is it a lost cause? If I had some additional frames of brood I could add some to the colony but I cannot chance taking them from the other colony yet.

What else should we do to assist the group in recovery other than combining them (which I still want to avoid if possible - we feel the queen deserves more than to be squished - although if she were to lay that would certainly help her cause).

Do caste sized groups ever survive?

All thoughts welcome,
Sam

Often the way................. at least you have a queen

Good luck!

They sound finished to me, finito, gone the way of the dodo!
Even if she were to start laying, with that many bees to assist, it would take ages for them to get anywhere.

Better off just finishing them off and free up your gear to start afresh imo

I don't doubt your right ...in-fact as soon as I do things go t**s up

However, where are the optimists? is there no-one out there who thinks it is worth the effort?

What would make a queen just stop laying - she is a Th orne's green queen (09) sent to us in May last year?

Has anyone been successful in this scenario before?

btw, still looking forward to a swarm call...;-)

Sam

What would make a queen just stop laying

Nosema is one reason.

Lack of bees to support the brood is another.

Lack of feeding of the queen.

Weather.

I fear that your wee nuc is niot yet small enough for them. If you can find some insulation poly then dummy them up to the one frame smeared with some honey if you can, with poly on the other side too. And above. They are way too small really for anything bar a mini nuc.

Good luck.

PH

Very simply, if there is an insufficient labour force and 'insulation' from the bees to be able to not only keep the nest warm, but actually generate enough heat to get it up to temperature, the queen will not be fed extra for her to lay.

A good thing you can do is put her in a poly mini nuc (mating nuc) and try to keep her warm.

When a queen emerges in a mating nuc, there are no so many bees - but the weather is sooo much warmer. If you could keep her going to May, she might just start laying again. Trouble is the longer it goes on the older she is getting and anyway, she may never lay again for a reason that the colony got in the mess in the first place..

Put her in a thermostatted environment at 30 degrees or so - but how much are you willing to spend to see if it works? I would wager that even if she were to recover, she would be superceded shortly after! Purchase (or beg steal or borrow) enough bees to give her a fair fighting chance.

What would she be worth as a young laying queen/ Not so much now as an old non-laying queen. I advised what to do right at the begining, so I doubt you are going to give up while she is still alive! Just bl**dy minded and determined to try to prove me wrong

RAB

RoseCottage said:

btw, still looking forward to a swarm call...;-)

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So am i lol
As soon as i get a swarm i will be calling you.

However, where are the optimists? is there no-one out there who thinks it is worth the effort?


Yup, Keep them warm and hope for the best.

Its not all about a honey crop.

Sam

I can't remember if you've said your a member of an association or not.
If you are ask if another member has a frame or two of bees spare or a colony in need of a queen or if the weather improves I'm sure I can rustle up a couple of frames of young bees for you. If you are interested send me a PM and we'll sort some thing out.

Also it makes a pleasant change to read helpful advice instead of the normal blunt emotionless kicking that most others would of received.
Must of been some thing that you posted that finally got through to them..

Sam, i can give you a frame of brood, but when they hatch out, make sure you have a suit of armour handy

The hint of a rather unusual and bizarre plan may just be forming.

I advise you all to sit down before reading the rest of this post, and also ensure no young babies are in the area in-case your laughter frightens them from their slumber...


We have a summerhouse that we use occasionally. We use it to sit and enjoy the garden and to sometimes raise chicks (as we are in the 'good life' zone we also have bantams).

Well we could string up the heat lamp and give the 'colony' some night time assistance. In the day we can assume that the glass environment is going to be reasonably comfortable for the girls and at night we can keep the temperature in the 20's or in the 30's as needed. This way with some water available and also the heat lamp being way up from the nuc box we could probably keep them in a very pleasant environment.

Rab, This adventure has gone so poorly so far that we may as well try some off the wall ideas to bring it back to normality. You see if only I had followed your advice...not so blo*dy minded as blo*dy stupid!

I am very grateful for offers of frames and will be accepting these too (Rab is this cheating???)

Perhaps the fat lady will not be singing afterall for this 'colony'...

Ok get your rocks ready I am now wearing my tall foil hat...

Sam

A plan is emerging just to prove to Rab that not all is lost (although i think secretly it is (did i just say that out loud?) )
I can donate a frame of eggs and brood bees etc from my commercial hives and Mike is going to donate something from from his nationals and we can mix and match.

I have a nuc box here that can be cleaned up and put back into working order and your more than welcome to borrow it. So we get the hose out to confuse them and throw bag of icing sugar at them at the same time then run...

After nine in the morning Sam

I'll call in the morning many thanks...

It isn't to prove Rab wrong, I respect him way too much for that. Everything he has said to me so far has been spot on and considered. I consider him to be 'one of the few'.

Having said that it would be great to succeed with the colony, and I am going to learn something from the struggle (even if it is negative lessons).

Thanks,
Sam

Nothing is cheating. Go ahead and get her going! You were lucky she was still there and as they say 'where there's life, there's hope'

A frame of bees and brood from 4 hives should do it.

RAB

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A cupfull of bees and a queen, which does not lay. the hive is practicaly dead. To get more bees to sick (?) queen? - Not a good idea.

Finman said:

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A cupfull of bees and a queen, which does not lay. the hive is practicaly dead. To get more bees to sick (?) queen? - Not a good idea.

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Oh no... Here comes the realist to rain on your parade!!!

Finman,

Sam is a small-scale hobbyist beek... Therefore you have got to think differently to what you would normally think whilst you run your large(ish) scale operation over in Finland.

Sam has only two hives and, to be honest, it seems like he/she is not too bothered about the "yield" that this colony will produce. So, he/she is just trying something different to save one of his/her colonies that he/she would almost consider as a pet.

Like you said, it is most probably a lost cause but, when you are not too concerned about honey crop and profit, why not try to save some bees?

BTW, I am not critisizing your way - I would be mad too! I'm just highlighting the difference between your outlook, and Sam's.


Ben P

PS. Apologies about "he/she"... I've made that mistake way too many times before LOL!

Ben,
I appreciate your words and also Finmans. You are right in what you say.

And just for the record I am 14st, hairy, with a deep voice and stubble....could be either up to this point...but am a man...

All the best,
Sam

Sam I would do the same and try anything feasable. I hate squishing anything (except spots) so can understand your resistance to killing off the queen, If you are lucky and they survive you will be chuffed, at the end of the day if they dont make it then its sad (lost a small colony this spring) but at least you tried.

Sorry Sam, I forgot your lovely wife's name

I'll let you tell every one about the funny story about the sting !!