How important is hawthorn as a nectar source?

There is mention in December 'Beecraft' that the author had a good crop of hawthorn honey this year and I see that Madasafish implies similar satisfaction.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=566521&highlight=hawthorn#post566521
I've never been convinced that hawthorn yields well - either in Cheshire with numerous hawthorn hedges (where I kept bees for 25 years) or more recently in Suffolk (15 years). In particular I have studied hawthorn blossom numerous times over the years and scarcely ever seen a honeybee thereon! Admittedly here in Suffolk it is difficult to be sure whether the crop is coming from OSR or hawthorn et al.
Can others enlighten me? How do you know it's predominantly hawthorn honey.

I get quite a bit going in but no real rewards, might get a super. Pollen analysis is the only real way to tell

It's notable for the rarity of it 'working' for the bees here, hence not something to be relied upon.

Amari said:

There is mention in December 'Beecraft' that the author had a good crop of hawthorn honey this year and I see that Madasafish implies similar satisfaction.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=566521&highlight=hawthorn#post566521
I've never been convinced that hawthorn yields well - either in Cheshire with numerous hawthorn hedges (where I kept bees for 25 years) or more recently in Suffolk (15 years). In particular I have studied hawthorn blossom numerous times over the years and scarcely ever seen a honeybee thereon! Admittedly here in Suffolk it is difficult to be sure whether the crop is coming from OSR or hawthorn et al.
Can others enlighten me? How do you know it's predominantly hawthorn honey.

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Is hawthorn a good source of pollen and nectar?

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http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17842

REDWOOD said:

The only time I've seen my bees on gorse is when we have hot days early spring.

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....and onto the Gorse... the pollen is a good source of protein.

Hawthorn, is capricious some years it yields copious nectar but not often. This year was one of them.
You need to check your honey under a microscope for what pollen it does contain. This year the hawthorn near one of my out apiaries was magnificent and I saw bees working it, nearby rape had almost finished and I had hoped for a crop of "pure" hawthorn. Not a chance, 50% rape, at best 20% hawthorn plus a load of stuff I haven't yet identified. The honey has a nice light colour and a distinct nutty aftertaste, which I'm told is a sign of hawthorn honey. But were I to sell it as such it wouldn't be accurate.
Same with this years Lime honey, magnificent blossom in trees nearby yet the pollen in the honey for that period is almost exclusively field bean. Not a single lime pollen grain have I found.
Without the pollen analysis it's is very difficult to say what the bees have made their honey from.

My apiary is surrounded by hawthorn and blackthorn and their flowering overlaps. The bees seemed to prefer blackthorn, when both were out. Hooper classes hawthorn as " top fruit" and says " none, except cherry, is a good honey plant , but they provide nectar and some pollen... The flowers producing nectar of low sugar concentration" . I can but say I had quite a good flow on when they were in flower. Do not know if it was due to foraging on these plants. However the blooms were abundant this year and I had my best crop ever this year

Hivemaker. said:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17842



....and onto the Gorse... the pollen is a good source of protein.

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that will teach me to be take note of what people post, I thought I got away with it

REDWOOD said:

I get quite a bit going in but no real rewards, might get a super. Pollen analysis is the only real way to tell

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I thought some bees collect nectar, others collect pollen - so is pollen content of honey meaningfull?

We sometimes get a good hawthorn flow here, this year was a good one and true to local wisdom a good hawthorn year often leads onto a poor summer flow.
Reasons behind plants giving a flow in one area yet nothing in another, despite looking equally good when in flower, can be next to impossible to perceive. I am grateful to keep my bees in a good hawthorn area but as always it's yin and yang, how often do I see pictures of the tennis in Wimbledon in clear skies and high temperatures when it's bloody cold and raining here.
Stand under a hawthorn in full bloom and the scent can be intoxicating, the honey is similar and unmistakable.

Amari said:

I thought some bees collect nectar, others collect pollen - so is pollen content of honey meaningfull?

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yes, you can judge how much of the honey is hawthorn by the % of hawthorn pollen found.

Lot of Hawthorn here, worked extensively this year, not sure as to what it yielded in the general overall percentage.

Though did spend time checking them to see their preferred forage, and this definitely featured. Love it as a plant, the heady smell is fantastic and a large tree in full bloom, as they become after many years , is some sight .

I agree with Dan....In 30 years have only had a significant crop from Hawthorn once....Wonderful flavour when you get it.....

We have loads of hawthorn around our fields.I always know when the bees are on it the hives smell of old socks. It produces really nice honey,lucky for me the trees don't all flower at once so when one finishes they move on to another.The black thorn tends to flower too early around here so the bees don't really bother with it.

I was treated to a taste of hawthorn honey last year. As you say a really excellent taste. When I enquired of the producer how their bees were persuaded to forage the hawthorn she told me that it is only in very few years that there is a significant nectar flow to attract the bees. Apparently, like some other trees, hawthorn produces a small nectar flow every year, however, when weather conditions are optimum the flow and quality of nectar increase dramatically and the bees will forage. I seem to remember that at the crucial time of flowering hawthorn needs 10 or more continuous days of temperature in the mid 60F or above. It is similar with the lime trees around my apiary. They bloom every year. Some years the foraging of the honey bees and bumbles makes them roar, other years it is much more low key. It depends on weather.

Brian Bush said:

I was treated to a taste of hawthorn honey last year. As you say a really excellent taste. When I enquired of the producer how their bees were persuaded to forage the hawthorn she told me that it is only in very few years that there is a significant nectar flow to attract the bees. Apparently, like some other trees, hawthorn produces a small nectar flow every year, however, when weather conditions are optimum the flow and quality of nectar increase dramatically and the bees will forage. I seem to remember that at the crucial time of flowering hawthorn needs 10 or more continuous days of temperature in the mid 60F or above. It is similar with the lime trees around my apiary. They bloom every year. Some years the foraging of the honey bees and bumbles makes them roar, other years it is much more low key. It depends on weather.

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the air around here smells sweet when the Hawthorn is in flower

When I started keeping bees, I was told that it needs to be warm and humid for hawthorn to yield. I hadn't noticed any real activity on hawthorn until about three years ago when I wandered down the garden on a lovely warm morning, about 7.30am, to watch the bees before going to work.

As I sat under the overgrown hawthorn hedge in the apiary, I heard that busy hum of a good flow. There were loads of honey bees, plus bumbles, solitaries and flies on the hawthorn - it was just alive with insects!

I very rarely take off spring honey, but I did that year. I put it into a few shows and it did well, for two years, including a best in show. It was a dense, viscous, medium honey with a very rich flavour. Both of the judges I asked reckoned it was hawthorn, so perhaps it was! I haven't had the same since - and won't have realised if I had previously, as it would have been mixed with summer honey - but I'll be paying more attention in the future

Wedmore lists it in his 2nd honey plant list which in turn says it is not a major producer and I quote.

Hawthorn. May. Honey dark amber of fine nutty flavour. Important sometimes in Uk and Ireland.

I had it but the once and the so and so's put it in the middle of Langstroth combs so quite unable to extract it separately from the OSR. Beautiful honey though and so odd to see the darkness in the midst of the OSR gold.

PH

Yes , the one year I had it....very viscous, and had to warm the supers to spin it out....!

I had some dark amber, very thick to spin out honey that was coming in at the same time as the OSR which I assumed to be hawthorn because never had it before. Hard to spin out of the frames. This was the only year I have had it since starting beeking in 2012. If its not hawthorn only other contender would be sycamore.

REDWOOD said:

yes, you can judge how much of the honey is hawthorn by the % of hawthorn pollen found.

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Quote from 2012 thread - sorry I don't know how to give the source:
West of Ireland/Midlands had a very cold and mostly dry April and early May due to the winds being Easterly for a change. When the weather turned warm around 20th May we had a honey flow from Sycamore but only in apiaries which had been sheltered from the Easterly winds. Exposed sites started to yield from Sycamore around the 28th but the temperatures dropped and stopped the flow. Lots of pollen from Hawthorn but no honey as far as I could see. PB.