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Old 22nd February 2010, 07:17 PM   #1
Tom Bick
 
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Default Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

Just seen a video on the Bickerstaffs website demonstrating a simple Oxalic acid Vaporizer unfortunately not able to create a link but its in the B Movies section.

The point is I have understood that we in this country dont bother with vaporizers as they are expensive, either Bickerstaffs have got it completely wrong or they have just re-invented the wheel because it it simplicity at its best and probably a few quid to produce and they sell it for less than 20

I think this is the link to Bickerstaffs site http://bickerstaffs.website.orange.c...FU0A4wod9k1knQ
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Old 22nd February 2010, 07:38 PM   #2
ian
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Hi Tom

To put it briefly don't bother with the Vaporiser, even at £20 it's 10 times more expensive than a syringe, it takes 20 times the amount of time to treat a hive. And if you get a good whiff it will do some serious damage..............

To top it all off you won't get any better results with the vaporiser over the trickle.


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Old 22nd February 2010, 08:06 PM   #3
plumber
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Tom
have alook at the link below re vaporizers

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/oa_evaporator/

with Oxalic acid costing £4 delivered for 500 grms @ 2grms a hive thats only about .02p a hive.

no opening of hive in winter muilt applications possible.

hive sealed with foam, joints sealed with tape if your hives have gaps.

stand up wind or buy a mask.

make three or more and speed up treatment
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Old 22nd February 2010, 08:40 PM   #4
m100
 
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They are cheap, and even cheaper if you make them yourself, but they have some very serious design issues.

Hot bits of pipe, blowtorches and the fumes are one, but ignore them for now. You have to get the input heat from the blowtorch correct to ensure sublimation and not decomposition, the former will treat your bees with oxalic acid vapours, the latter could gas them with CO or CO2.

Even those with electrical heaters seem to have no obvious control over the ramp rate and the final temperature, and the potential peak temperature quoted by one manufacturer raises some doubts over the probability of sublimation occurring.

Trickling is cheap, and dirt cheap if you mix it yourself, is much quicker in the field, and compared to ramming a pipe or an electric heater through the entrance (after removing the mouseguard and then replacing it afterwards) is far less disruptive.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 08:43 PM   #5
ian
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Hi Plumber

I think the Oxalic would cost about the same trickled or vaporised.

There's no problem in opening the hive briefly in Winter, having done it hundreds of times can you tell us why this should be an issue.
As to multiple treatments none are needed with a Winter trickle, so it's hardly a plus point in favour of vaporisers.

You don't have to seal up any hives/parts to trickle. So no foam or tape!

Buy a mask or stand up wind!!!!! Lets just hope the wind does not change!

And if you make up 3 or more vaporisers you would need a wheel barrow to push the car batteries needed to run them around the Apiary(one for each unit)

Why complicate something so very simple! On the other hand if you want to be the biggest varroa murdering S.O.B on the block apply your oxalic with one of these.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Time4Toys-Xt.../dp/B000QGDJR4


Regards Ian

Last edited by ian; 22nd February 2010 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:13 PM   #6
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if there is no problem opening a hive in winter why does it concern so many.

buy and use a mask

my car and van both use glow plugs a single battery would do depending on ampage required/ number of units. my blowtorch 100s

looking for a job in goverment and you have start with small compications and work up to the monumetal cock ups
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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:30 PM   #7
ian
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Hi Plumber

I have no idea why people are concerned about taking the lid off a hive in Winter, maybe they have not done it often enough.

Buy a mask: Why you don't need one to trickle.

Plug into your car: That's a long extension cable for many sites.

I am not being funny but can you name the advantages for vaporising as it needs some to justify the extra time, expense and general faffing around. After all you can treat hundreds of hives with a bucket of acid solution 1 syringe and a pair of marigolds.

It's an advantage of one over the other that we are after.

Regards Ian
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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:34 PM   #8
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ian

I do object to you refering to my mother in such away

I also so note you are living in the past useing a syringe check out the latest

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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:50 PM   #9
ian
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Hi Plumber

Keep your mother to yourself

As to living in the past, I made up a dispenser with a Scats sheep drencher and a large domestos bottle with handle as a reservoir some years ago. That was after I binned the vaporiser........................

Obviously I have since upgraded, Swienty have been selling similar models for the last 5 years available at Stonleigh if you don't fancy the trip or P&P.

But obviously for those with a few hives a 2 quid syringe will do


Regards Ian

Last edited by ian; 22nd February 2010 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 08:16 AM   #10
Tom Bick
 
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Sorry left work after posting the thread.

The thing is as I am new to beekeeping two years + and this OA treatment concerns me as the one thing you are told to overwinter bees they need warmth and dry apart from the OA treatment?

If you have a big strong colony this treatment may well be ok but it the colony is smaller and struggling then it may be the end of it.

Mixing the OA is like you say Ian not that difficult but mixing for say 4 hives more difficult I knew a chap who had scales that went down to .01g once in a different life, funny link by the way

I recognised that the pipe in the video had little control over heat on the OA and will require an experienced hand to get it right. The link that Plumber has is a more controlled method and precises one

My conclusion is that to say that the vaporising method no good as it takes a long time removing the mouse gard ect and the extra equipment especially if you have many hives to treat then it may well take a long time but then you have a lot of hives and plenty of actions during the year take a long time

I dont know the better method as a person that perhaps will only have a small number of hives may not even apply OA at all it is as you say a dangerous chemical and may opt for other treatments that will take even longer and my time and I will have to fined that time

Both methods may work just the same but has the trickle method being adopted in this country because its cheap and quick and carried out at a time when we want to be inside in the warm and dry ourselves, is it a standard method throughout the rest of the world.
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