Vaporising Oxyalic Acid Against Varroa

Havent seen this on any of the most recent chats, So just wanted to share this research by Sussex University. It is very interesting reading re treatment. Dont shoot me down if you've all seen it, I am sure you have!!

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/33537

Plenty of honey said:

Havent seen this on any of the most recent chats, So just wanted to share this research by Sussex University. It is very interesting reading re treatment. Dont shoot me down if you've all seen it, I am sure you have!!

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/33537

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Thanks for the link, had not seen and great to read results if an official study.

Some may decry , some always do, but I found this useful as just hot all the gear ready to Vape my hives and waiting over next few days to get the opportunity.

Interesting
It would be good if we had which dose was most effective from the summary
Cant sem to access the main paper to check
Thanks for posting this, it confrpirms sublimation is the way to go....for the moment!

The main thing i was pleased to see, was the fact that Vaporised oxalic acid does not seem to damage the surface of the bees , as was the thought and worry of many, whereas it seems it does when its dribbled or sprayed in liquid form.
To me this is the result we really wanted. Clarification that cheap generic form of oxalic acid does work effectively, does not damage the bees and controls varroa.
Good bye expensive fake alternative treatments that dont work!! This is enough for me! I've bee vaporising for three years and never looked back.

Plenty of honey said:

The main thing i was pleased to see, was the fact that Vaporised oxalic acid does not seem to damage the surface of the bees , as was the thought and worry of many, whereas it seems it does when its dribbled or sprayed in liquid form.

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And ingested, nevertheless I expect many will still carry on using the harmful and less effective method.

Hivemaker. said:

And ingested, nevertheless I expect many will still carry on using the harmful and less effective method.

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http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=514586#post514586

Post #15655.

A noticeable difference after sublimation compared to other treatments, thanks Hivemaker for the heads up some time ago

Yes, thanks HM
I've been using it for a year now and won't go back to MAQS or thymol

Goodwood said:

Interesting
It would be good if we had which dose was most effective from the summary
Cant sem to access the main paper to check
Thanks for posting this, it confrpirms sublimation is the way to go....for the moment!

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There's a little more information here - http://www.sussex.ac.uk/lasi/sussexplan/varroamites

It seems that 2.25gm was the most effective but you'd need to find out from the paper itself whether that was sublimating through a metal mesh floor or not. No doubt Derekm and others would be interested to find out the thermal performance of the hives that were used in the experiments, if carried out in winter.

CVB

thanks Hivemaker for the heads up some time ago

Yes, thanks HM. Even though I was sublimating oxalic acid over ten years ago! What really surprises me is the authoritative paper which comes out such a very long time after some of us already knew it worked better than other methods.

The only difference, than back when I started sublimating, is the repeated doses being OK if brood is present making it a potent method of mite reduction before the winter bees are produced. Previously, I only sublimated once and needed to choose the time more carefully than is now evident.

RAB

oliver90owner said:

thanks Hivemaker for the heads up some time ago

Yes, thanks HM. Even though I was sublimating oxalic acid over ten years ago! What really surprises me is the authoritative paper which comes out such a very long time after some of us already knew it worked better than other methods.


RAB

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Most of us use totally other methods. They are easier. Gasifying has been known longer than formic acid, dribling or thymol. About 10 years Apistan was good and handy.

Worked better.... Dead rate of different methods is about same.

If you use some method, you do not need to bark other methods.
Many British use still Apistan.

Try to objective, RAB.

But the fact is that when beehives have a good brood gap in Winter, treatment is easy. If there are brood around the year, treatments are much more laborous. In South USA many does not mind to treat hives at all.

But now, when guys advertise fumigation, some of us use it when honey yield is in the hive.
" you can do it as many times as you want" - that is miserable idea

Do not loose you brains. This is not common sense thing. This is modern food production.

IT is same oxalic acid, what ever method it is.

I hope, that this forum keep some moral and line when discussing about treatments. Diseases are the most serious question in beekeeping, and nowadays most of us do not know, what they are writing.
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.when you plan all the time to ban someone next, try to ban some jungle doctors and " do nothing to diseases guys", that they do not spread their poison.
.

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I put the link some days ago but very few have even looked this thread

A Swish ministry has published comparision between efficacy of winter methods 2003

Perizin .................... 89-98%

Oxalic acid spraying, water solution 95-98%

Oxalic trikling ...........95-98%

Oxalic fumigation -----95-98%

Lactic acip spraying (18%)... 94-99%

From table you see, that Perizin, Oxalic spraying and Lactic acid have been used allready 25 years ago.

.This comparision has been bublished 2003. Varroa treatments have been researched very carefully during last 20 years. No need to invent you own ideas.

There are many methods and you may use such which is possible and comfortale to you.

In many cases treatment does not work as it has been promised. Even if it has been promised 96%, the result may be mostly near 80%.

80% efficacy means that amount of living mites are 5 fold compared to 86%.

If you have 1000 mites, and efficacy is 86%, you have 14 mites alive after winter and that is too much.

Brilliant ! Really encouraging to read.

No more MAQS for me !.

Also cheaper, which as hive no's increase makes for god news.

Plenty of honey said:

To me this is the result we really wanted. Clarification that cheap generic form of oxalic acid does work effectively, does not damage the bees and controls varroa.

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Yes, pity it's now a treasonable offence in the UK to even look at a packet of generic OA

BrianO said:

Brilliant ! Really encouraging to read.

No more MAQS for me !.

Also cheaper, which as hive no's increase makes for god news.

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God news indeed... we need all the help we can get against the virus spreading mite!

Is Eire under the same ludicrous legislation restricting purchase ability and use of effective but unlicensed varroacides that have been lumped upon UK
amateur beekeepers?

And now call me Dave's army of overpaid civil serpants have foisted quarterly tax returns upon small businesses.
Takes me a month to get my annual one in.. as almost impossible to get onto HNRC website to upload info online... even at 3.00am !!

Tasmania is looking even more inviting!

Nadelik lowen

Finman said:

.....when you plan all the time to ban someone next, try to ban some jungle doctors and " do nothing to diseases guys", that they do not spread their poison.
.

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There are no 'do nothing to diseases guys' that I have ever seen on here and I haven't see anyone spreading poison.

You seem to be favouring treatments other than OA sublimation ? - Yet, everyone on here who has tried it has very positive things to say about it - even though I haven't treated my own bees for varroa I've used sublimation and it's as near to the magic bullet for varroa we have yet to find. But you don't have to believe me ...

HM uses it and has done much personal research into its efficacy and has stated many times that even over treatment has little or no effect on the bees but a dramatic effect on the mites. That alone was good enough for me to try it ... if that's not enough ...

RAB has been using it for 10 years and has a similar view .. and there are others.

It's an ideal treatment for those with just a few hives as well, after the initial purchase of the equipment it's as cheap as chips .. OA costs pence per treatment. Compare that with £5.70 PER HIVE for MAQS or Apistan £4.70 PER HIVE ... (and mites show resistance to Apistan in many regions). Need I go on ... ???


The fact that LASI has come out with a strong recommendation in favour of OA sublimation will, I hope, lead to FERA recognising that their present ill-informed position on OA is behind the times and to a legalisation of the treatment (it may take a year or six !).

So ... in my book, you are more dangerous than your 'do nothing guys' .. perhaps you are too old to change and despite your several degrees can't keep up with the changes ... ?

I knew it was a mistake to ease the 'IGNORE' button on you !

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Do you need to count mites?

After winter mite numbers must be very low that it does not reach amounts which violated winter brood. Mites do not mostly kill the hive, but they reduce the cluster size and make spring build up slow.

Even if you do not loose any hive for varroa, they may reduce the size of wintering gang in every hive.

When do you count the mites? Varroa propagate itself double in a month.

If we have 86% or 96% the efficacy in killing mites, and we have 1000 mites in December in broodless hive

Feb …....... 14 ….........4
March …......28 ….......8
April …....... 56 ….....16
May …....... 112 ….....32
June …....... 224 ….....64
July …....... 448 ….....128
August ….....900 ….....250
Sept …..... 1800 ….....500
Ocht …..... 3700 ….....1000

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My friend has been the whole his life a professional beekeeper. He is now 75 years. He tells that his home town surrounding has so much beehives that there are difficulties to keep hives alive on this area. Most of his hives are 100 km away from home. Even if he treats his hives, hives get soon new mite load from surroundins. And it is every year the same thing.

It means too, that you should treat your every hive at same time, that some is not a nest of mite propagation.

Finman said:

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Do you need to count mites?

After winter mite numbers must be very low that it does not reach amounts which violated winter brood. Mites do not mostly kill the hive, but they reduce the cluster size and make spring build up slow.

Even if you do not loose any hive for varroa, they may reduce the size of wintering gang in every hive.

When do you count the mites? Varroa propagate itself double in a month.

If we have 86% or 96% the efficacy in killing mites, and we have 1000 mites in December in broodless hive

Feb …....... 14 ….........4
March …......28 ….......8
April …....... 56 ….....16
May …....... 112 ….....32
June …....... 224 ….....64
July …....... 448 ….....128
August ….....900 ….....250
Sept …..... 1800 ….....500
Ocht …..... 3700 ….....1000

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Finnie ... this is mindless cabbage ... Who said anything about counting mites ?

NO current treatment is going to be 100% effective ... so, you, if you are going to treat, then it makes sense to pick the one most likely to give you a good knockdown ..

So .. are you still saying that OA by sublimation is NOT the best treatment available ...????

pargyle said:

even though I haven't treated my own bees for varroa I've used sublimation and it's as near to the magic bullet for varroa we have yet to find. But you don't have to believe me ...
!

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I have had mites in my hives since 1982. It is 33 years. I destroyed first hive then. There was no treatment methods. 1987 I got Perizin from Germany when my mother in law brought them. in those days mite killed in two years 10 hive apiaries and it did not give no mercy.


You have nursed 3 years couple of hives hives, not treated any, and you advice me. Difficult to add something to that. And you have not extracted any honey. That is one result of varroa.

I have about 5 months total brood gap in my hives. Treatments should be easy in my country. Yoiu just do it in August and in October. But experienced beekeepers have begun to loose hives more and more to mites. Reason is viruses.

I understand now Hivemakers choice, when he uses fumigation. This winter explains much. He has warm winters, and hives get pollen in winter and it keeps brooding on. Oxalic trickling does not work in brooding colony. So simple.

Pargyle, I am not teasing you in this forum. You are not so important person. To me it is important to give varroa advices where you can trust on.

But to you Pargyle, the treatment of Finman seems to be much more important than varroa. It is life task.
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