Condensation in poly hive

I just had a quick peek under the roof to make sure there was enough room for the ivy, and I noticed that there was a lot of condensation around the edges of the box and on inside of the clear crown board. The entrance is fully open and the mesh floor is open too, although the ivy traffic is nuts - crowds flying in and out. I suspect that I'm missing some ventilation on the top, but I don't know what.

bpmurray said:

I noticed that there was a lot of condensation around the edges of the box and on inside of the clear crown board.

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Thats very strange. I have always found the inside of a polyhive to be much drier than a wooden hive. Its very damp in the mornings now though. Perhaps this has something to do with it?

I made a cosy for mine to prevent this. (MB Lang poly).

It works.

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madasafish said:

I made a cosy for mine to prevent this. (MB Lang poly).

It works.

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A cosy, even on a poly?
I have one on a wooden hive but I thought putting more on a poly was overkill. Where's Derek?

There was some when I was feeding one of my poly nucs - interestingly not the others. I took it as a cue that the temperature has dropped to the point where feeding syrup would do more harm than good and switched to fondant

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I bet that colony is too small to that size room, peripheria is cold and bees cannot keep walls warm enough.

How many frames bees have in the hive and do it has unoccupied frames.
When you add ventilation, the box will be cooler.

If we in Finland want to dry up a interrior, we rise heat. Relative moisture goes down, when temperature rises.

- so, take vain space off and restrict the room, that box is warmer.

Erichalfbee said:

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A cosy, even on a poly?
I have one on a wooden hive but I thought putting more on a poly was overkill. Where's Derek?

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You should breed poly resistant strain. We others have already such.

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Any condensation that does collect in those channels is used by the bees as a water source if they are active in the hive, but not flying.

sipa said:

Any condensation that does collect in those channels is used by the bees as a water source if they are active in the hive, but not flying.

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Oh dear!
That is clean rubbish

Well, I put a super on because they were bringing so much back and the brood box was busting at the seams. I suppose that is a fair bit of extra room, although they are filling it with ivy. I'm beginning to suspect it's a function of the space, the lower night temperatures and the evaporation of the honey.

There is condensation in the top because the lid insulation is inadequate and possibly as Finman says, colony too small for space. Just because it's a poly hive, doesn't mean the insulation levels are correct.

Itchy said:

There is condensation in the top because the lid insulation is inadequate and possibly as Finman says, colony too small for space. Just because it's a poly hive, doesn't mean the insulation levels are correct.

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Spot on .. I have an empty super on the top of my Paynes Poly hives . I put 100mm of Kingspan in the super and I've never had a drop of condensation forming on the clear crown board. Are you using the flimsy clear crownboard that Paynes provide with their hives ? If so .. change it for 6mm thick acrylic.

It's not ventilation you need it's more insulation.

I am still using that crown board, but it's topped with a poly feeder filled with foam and bonded to the lid....no condensation now.

Going over to DM bonnets for all wooden hives as and when I can afford it.

All Poly nucs have the eke filled with cellotex, which works well too.

bpmurray said:

I just had a quick peek under the roof to make sure there was enough room for the ivy,.

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I think with my 53 years experience that this time of year you should reduce your hive room to the size of the colony for wintering, not for ivy.

Enough room for ivy? Wintering problem?
The value of ivy honey? Is it more than value of sugar 40 pence/kg?

If the colony had 6 frames of brood in September, the cluster needs 6-7 frames for Winter.

30 years ago I asked from professional beekeeper, why my combs get mold during Winter? He said that put your hives tighter, that interrior is warmer. IT keeps moisture off. IT means that dew point is outside of the hive.

Below the temp of -8C I can see that moisture attaches to the inside corners of the polybox and make frost inside. When weather becomes warm, frost melts and water drills onto floor.

If the hive has only half occupied, I can see that during damp weathers moisture goes inside the winter food. Food swells from cells and drills onto floor. I have seen, that moisture goes inside cappings and sugar burst out from cells. That happens during 5C outer temps. Diluted food is able to ferment in lower temps but not in frost temps.

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I have in inner covers 9 mm wood and 70 mm plastic foam matress. Moisture comes through the construction. That is called "respirating structure". It works fine in plus 30C and in -30C. Same cover is all the year around.


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Different climate..?

Just now we have nights -2C and days from 5 to 8C. It is rare that bees fly any more. They do not come out for fun. Most tree leaves have fallen. Yes, we have warm weather now.

Farmers harvest their last corn fields and field beans.
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It's around 5C at night here, and goes up to around 16C during the day. The bees are flying like it's summer. I added the super which is almost half full already, because the brood box was full of honey and I didn't know what they would do if they ran out of room.

Anyway, I've put aeroboard (20mm polystyrene) under the roof - if that doesn't work, I'll put the super under the brood box. They might not fill it, but at least the heat will be above and will prevent condensation due to the empty space.

Should I put in the insert for the floor too? The mesh floors on my hives are still open.

sipa said:

Any condensation that does collect in those channels is used by the bees as a water source if they are active in the hive, but not flying.

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Oh dear, we're in the beginners section aren't we!

Carbohydrate (honey) + Oxygen (Air) = CO2 + H2O (Water / condensation).

How was that for basic Chemistry?

The colder it gets, the more condensation is produced.

Not in a properly insulated hive it odesnt