2nd super

I have looked and cannot find the answer so here goes,

Probably a should know question, I have single brood and an nearly filled super so where should I put my second super? On top of the nearly filled one or between the brood box and the nearly filled one? The second one I have is a super with drawn frames.

Thanks, in advance.

Just had a quick Google and it looks like it makes no difference just down to personal preference, please correct me if I am wrong.

put the new one as close to the brood box as possible.

if you want to be optimal, keep the part filled frames 'downstairs' as the may waste resources by moving it nearer.

you are lucky! my bees are on OSR and there is no sign of a super being filled yet... the soil is as dry as a bone.

sbisme said:

Just had a quick Google and it looks like it makes no difference just down to personal preference, please correct me if I am wrong.

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There are pros and cons for both options:-

Top supering means it's easier to add in the first place and easier to inspect to know when you may need the next super.

Bottom supering in theory creates more of a space between the brood nest and the stores which supposedly makes the bees thnk they don't have enough stores and forage more (or harder). However you have to remove the original super to start with and every time you want to check the new super to see how full it is.

I have and do use both methods but when the hive starts to look like this



You may change your mind about bottom supering!

Thanks guys

One more question should I be adding a second super? The one on has all the frames with stores in them and they are just starting to cap.

I always place a new super above, if a super is place below with foundation, I find this becomes travel stained and the bees mess with it and don't draw it. Doesn't matter where drawn combs are placed but definately place supers of foundation above

If it was me I would take out some of the filled capped frames and replace with new ones.

sbisme said:

Thanks guys

One more question should I be adding a second super? The one on has all the frames with stores in them and they are just starting to cap.

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Bees need room to store and evaporate. I would have added a second already.
Cazza

snelgrove said:

I always place a new super above, if a super is place below with foundation, I find this becomes travel stained and the bees mess with it and don't draw it. Doesn't matter where drawn combs are placed but definately place supers of foundation above

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My preference is the opposite!

I'm of the opinion that wax-making is easiest for the bees where it is warmest.
And that is just above the brood ...

Another piece of my personal heresy is to put a couple of drawn frames in the middle of the box of 'foundation' so that it immediately "links" with the box above.
Then the bees get on with drawing the frames adjacent to those already drawn.


Nowadays, I use SN1 frames and, to get them drawn, I temporarily add Hoffman converter clips and load them 12 to a National super (with rails) - there being no propolis on the clean spacers, 12 fit nicely. Once the frames are 'significantly' drawn (but hopefully uncapped as yet) they get moved to a box with 10-slot castellations (during which process the Hoffman clips are removed, for reuse on the next undrawn frames after soda washing.)
This works much better for me than just plonking them in at 10-spacing to start. Unfortunately, that's what has to happen with Manleys, which can be a bit of a pain until they are well-drawn, after which they are fantastic (just be careful with the lugs when trying to get the frames out of the box!)

itma said:

My preference is the opposite!


Another piece of my personal heresy is to put a couple of drawn frames in the middle of the box of 'foundation' so that it immediately "links" with the box above.
Then the bees get on with drawing the frames adjacent to those already )

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Nothing heretical there. Standard well practised trick??

Cazza

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Allways new box over brood box. It prevents swarming. And bees need new combs where they dry up nectar.

Bees need room for nectar twice as much as rippen honey.

YorkshireBees said:

There are pros and cons for both options:-

Top supering means it's easier to add in the first place and easier to inspect to know when you may need the next super.

!

Click to expand...

Top supering is easier, but then hive is out of control.

Yes, sad to see when hive gets 150 kg honey to that tower. So sad.

.

Idea is that you see when honey box is capped, and when you should extract rippen honey and release combs for further filling.

Rippening and extracting should go in order. Capped off and new room for nectar.

If bees do not have space over brood box, they store nectar into brood cells.

That tower in the picture. You cannot do so that you pile empty boxes topmost and do not extract lower boxes.

You must know what is happening in brood box. At same time you inspect that hive is not generating swarming. Take capped honey off and empty combs in.

Bottom supering is good for getting wax drawn and if wanting show quality frames. Top supering is better for swarm control. I notice that bees tend to leave an empty arch in the first super above the queen excluder.

Hawklord said:

Top supering is better for swarm control. .

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Surely not. If you have 2 hives, and 2 supers, and you do not have time to lift upper box and put the empty box? At same time you lift couple of brood frames and look, dors hive have started queen cells.

But beeks have time to things, which are never needed.

Finman said:

Top supering is easier, but then hive is out of control.

Yes, sad to see when hive gets 150 kg honey to that tower. So sad.

.

Idea is that you see when honey box is capped, and when you should extract rippen honey and release combs for further filling.

Rippening and extracting should go in order. Capped off and new room for nectar.

If bees do not have space over brood box, they store nectar into brood cells.

That tower in the picture. You cannot do so that you pile empty boxes topmost and do not extract lower boxes.

You must know what is happening in brood box. At same time you inspect that hive is not generating swarming. Take capped honey off and empty combs in.

Click to expand...

The picture was an example of how high hives can get in a big flow when none of the supers was ready for extraction but more space was required by the bees for processing the incoming nectar.

That was a carefully managed hive (both brood space / honey supers) and I was not suggesting for one minute that it was top supered only.

In fact I tend to manage the honey supers (especially when there are more than 2) so that the ones that will be ready for extraction first go on top and the most empty are above the brood nest.

Finman said:

Surely not. If you have 2 hives, and 2 supers, and you do not have time to lift upper box and put the empty box? At same time you lift couple of brood frames and look, dors hive have started queen cells.

But beeks have time to things, which are never needed.

Click to expand...

Not sure I understand you. If adding supers under each other, when the top super is capped the bees will move down into super below. If adding supers above bees will have to walk through capped supers this therefore creates space for a larger colony.

Hawklord said:

Not sure I understand you. If adding supers under each other, when the top super is capped the bees will move down into super below. If adding supers above bees will have to walk through capped supers this therefore creates space for a larger colony.

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Natural order is that rippen honey is moved up. Then bees need much more space where they store nectar and move huge amount of moisture off.
Then lowest is brood.

That is bad idea that capped honey is above brood, and nectar highest. What is the idea in it?

How do you make swarm cell inspections? However you must move supers off every week. That is beekeeping when you want big yield.

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I have 4-6 supers above 3 brood boxes. It is glad to lift them when they are heavy.

I know of a bee farmer who keeps his supers below the queen excluder and the brood above, less time taken for Swarm control I presume but certainly not natural.

Hawklord said:

I know of a bee farmer who keeps his supers below the queen excluder and the brood above, less time taken for Swarm control I presume but certainly not natural.

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I know too those guys in Finland, and they say that it absolutely best method.
But their yields are about half of mine.
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Real professionals, who have over 500 hives, they use old fashion styles which are based on bees' instinct.

There are plenty of guys who love to invent wheels and make big noice what they have found out again. Like:insulated hives are warmer than non insulated.