Varroa natural mite drop

Very low mite drop on my hives this month (typical less than one a day). Any one else finding this? Normally expect much higher at this time of year. Lots of possible reasons but would be interested in other bk's findings.

Mine are very low too, even less than yours, about 3 per week. Not sure whether to miss out Apiguard treatment and just do oxalic in winter if needed.
Is this a good idea? Opinions welcome!

Yep - same here.
I have all the usual bits and mess and even dead wasps which have got lost under the floor but no mites. There were couple of slugs on one board.
Could something be eating the mites?

Hardly any.

Not planning to do apiguard or oxalic at the moment. Don't believe in treatment for the sake of it.

interesting mine are just the same // hardly any varoa. last year lost count. i will probably just apiguard a few then oxalic at xmas

We have a low count also, not seeing much about this year.

Mine are showing no drop at all, did a sugar roll with a jar with a mesh on top - none at all - uncapped about 15 drone cells ... none at all. Mine were a swarm at the end of May and the only Varroa I saw was about 3 or 4 when I dusted them with icing sugar when I shook them into the hive.

I find it difficult to reconcile as everyone tells me I'm in the thick of it with Varroa in South Hampshire ... I really don't want to treat without evidence that it is needed so it's reassuring that there are a few more of us thinking this way.

What's going on ?

Can I just urge some caution here.
Last year....maybe it was the year before...this forum was full of posts of horrendous varroa drops post thymol with a background of nearly zero counts through the year.
I never trust natural drop as an accurate measure of infestation.
Pargyl'e sugar roll....providing you have enough bees (I think randy Oliver suggests three hundred from the brood nest) is good as is drone uncapping again providing you have at least a hundred larvae. Not so many drones about now though.
I'm not suggesting you do or don't treat. Just don't rely on natural drop as an indicator

Erichalfbee said:

...
I'm not suggesting you do or don't treat. Just don't rely on natural drop as an indicator

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Thing is, the drop you see is an indication of the minimum indicated varroa population.

It is at least that bad.
How much worse it actually is would depend on how many of the dead varroa were going missing before being counted. Checking the board daily, but still averaging over several days will help. As would things like grease-banding the hive stand legs ...

Natural drop is a useful indicator. It may understate, but not overstate, the problem.
Just don't rely on a low drop count - alone - as a clean bill of health. Use other methods to confirm that it is credible!

To posters considering leaving out an autumn thymol treatment in favour of a winter oxalic treatment, beware !
To my mind the winter oxalic treatment is only useful to mop up any mites missed by the thymol or from mites gained by re infection from nearby collapsing colonies. The thymol treatment is the important one as it should allow the bees to raise a varroa free( and therefore less virus infected) batch of brood before winter. Relying on a winter treatment could be leaving it too late, the damage having already been done if you have miss judged the true varroa load leading into the autumn. Just my thoughts on it.

Makes a lot of sense, mbc.

Dusty

Dusty Rhodes said:

Makes a lot of sense, mbc.

Dusty

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Is this the nu bkf ? everyone being nice and patting each other on the back.

edit: Of course it does, I'm from welshmanland, have been keeping bees for over a thousand years, average over 200kg per hive and have loads of degree's from a hellishly stinky university.

edit2: hopefully this post will be deleted as it may offend anyone who endorses snake oil

mbc said:

To posters considering leaving out an autumn thymol treatment in favour of a winter oxalic treatment, beware !
To my mind the winter oxalic treatment is only useful to mop up any mites missed by the thymol or from mites gained by re infection from nearby collapsing colonies. The thymol treatment is the important one as it should allow the bees to raise a varroa free( and therefore less virus infected) batch of brood before winter. Relying on a winter treatment could be leaving it too late, the damage having already been done if you have miss judged the true varroa load leading into the autumn. Just my thoughts on it.

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+1.

I've just done ten apiguards on hives with low counts at our training Apiary, I will report back on this thread what drop we havewith the apiguard

all the hives show a low weekly mite drop and thats totally unusual for that apairy as we get a lot of drifting, but we needed to show the beginners how to apply apiguard and monitor the drop

Though the low drop is not universal as i know of one beekeeper's hive that has a natural drop of 50 in a week and 200 in a day with icing sugar, * but she used hive clean instead of winter oxalic

My one 14x12 hive started out as a swarm hived at the start of June. I did an almost immediate icing sugar treatment and had a drop of ten. A week later I did a Hive Clean treatment and had a drop of twelve. On routine checks over the last couple of months, I've not had a drop that has averaged more than one per day.
Is it possible that the mites spread from bee to bee more readily when the whole colony is confined to the hive by bad weather, as there was in the two previous summers?
As to whether we treat for varroa this autumn, we have a dilemma; if we treat when there is not much evidence of varroa, we are no better than those farmers who throw pesticide around because they've always done it, whether or not there are pests on the crops. If we don't treat, and mbc and Luminos are right, we have to rely solely on the mid-winter Oxalic Treatment. So many decisions, so many decisions ...

charlievictorbravo said:

. So many decisions, so many decisions ...

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"Beware" doesnt mean "must treat in Autumn", just dont be lead into a false sense of security by inaccurate sampling methods and miss judge the true picture re your varroa loading.

Charlievictorbravo I can only tell you what my experience was with my first ever colony:

I treated in autumn with Varroa Gard, not realising it was only really a hive sanitiser.
I planned to do OA in winter - but the bees were dead before I ever got to that point.

I asked for help on the forum, and an experienced beek looked at the frames for me and discovered an almighty varroa load (up to 7 in a cell).
After starting again, now with a much better idea of integrated pest management, I also made sure to have more than one colony, as back up.

mbc said:

The thymol treatment is the important one as it should allow the bees to raise a varroa free( and therefore less virus infected) batch of brood before winter. .

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That is 100% true.

Later summer treatment is necessary, but not oxalic acid trickling.

Life teaches finally...

And note!!!
Varroa has 2 months to multiply itself

now 100 mites
end of Sept 200
end of Ochtober 400 mites

,
Now 100
treated 30
in Sept 30
Och.....60

60 mites over winter is too heavy. It must be after january 10 mites and you do not get proplems before next year September.

.
Half dies during winter with bees

February 30
Marsh......60
April......120
May.......250
June ......500
July.......1000
August...2000
September ...4000.....

.This is based on researching... Look Nanetti..

.

Finman said:

.
Half dies during winter with bees

February 30
Marsh......60
April......120
May.......250
June ......500
July.......1000
August...2000
September ...4000.....

.This is based on researching... Look Nanetti..

.

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With all due respect, varroa population dynamics are dependent on several factors, the particular strain of varroa in question, the bees who are hosting them, beekeeper management practices and in particular the local conditions.
I suppose it cant hurt to emphasize the possibility of what the population could grow to over a period of time given a worst case scenario though.
I believe Nanetti was working in Southern Italy, a long way from Britain and certainly very different conditions to West Wales.

mbc said:

I believe Nanetti was working in Southern Italy, a long way from Britain and certainly very different conditions to West Wales.

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Sorry. UK has everything so different. it is 20 miles to Europe from England. If Holland an Denmark would be closer, it will become a war, I suppose.

You need not to explain to Nanetti about varroa.
Nanetti is the most respected varroa researcher in ther world.
He is an Italian beekeeping professor.

I do not know any UK varroa researcher or beekeeping researcher. Tell me if you have such one there.

Look here http://www.agroscope.admin.ch/imkerei/00316/00329/04435/index.html?lang=en

Here is an EU work group where Nanetti was in years 1996-2006

The was a place to English member but he did not arrived to the group.




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