Bailey comb exchange for swarm control?

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Amari

Amari

Queen Bee
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Location
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I am away in the middle 2 weeks of May and fear a repetition of the swarming frenzy of 2012 in my absence. Does anyone have experience of using the Bailey comb exchange as a means of reducing the risk? I performed this procedure on a couple of hives 3 years ago (not for swarm control reasons) with good result and intend to do it anyway this year as a means of comb replacement. Maybe if I do it just before I go away it will keep the Queens otherwise occupied.
I could of course try shook swarms but have never tried this before and hate the thought of discarding brood which this method requires, also I guess its best to shake swarms in good weather and who knows what that will be like.
 
Do you know another beek that could check them for you while you're away?

Sent from my XT615 using Tapatalk 2
 
Ely said:
Do you know another beek that could check them for you while you're away?

Sent from my XT615 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Yes, but he's my tutoree! He is coming on fast but not yet completed a season
so hardly ready to do Demarees etc which I regard as the most difficult of all colony manipulations.
 
Amari said:
I could of course try shook swarms but have never tried this before and hate the thought of discarding brood which this method requires, also I guess its best to shake swarms in good weather and who knows what that will be like.
Click to expand...

You could shake into a bottom box of foundation, put an excluder on top and place the original brood box with brood on top.
 
Erichalfbee said:
You could shake into a bottom box of foundation, put an excluder on top and place the original brood box with brood on top.
Click to expand...

That sounds like an upside down Bailey Comb Exchange ( Queen on one frame in brood box filled with foundation above a queen excluder above original BB containing brood and with bottom entrance closed and bees have new entrance above QEx).
 
You rather answered your own post just above.

Do that and she will not be leaving in the next fortnight (with a Q/E below her).

Problem will be if they are already in swarm mode.

A Bailey comb change does not shift entrances around.
 
Amari said:
and hate the thought of discarding brood which this method requires, also I guess its best to shake swarms in good weather and who knows what that will be like.
Click to expand...

no method tell to kill brood.

Shook swarm does not mean that you leave brood without nursers.

Flying false swarm is good, because you need not think how much you take bees.


Move the hive 10 feet and bees fly themselves to the foundation hive.

.
 
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I looked what that Bailey system means:

There are two methods of replacing the brood comb:
1) Shook swarm: bees are literally shaken into a new hive with fresh foundation and the old brood comb and unhatched bees are burned. The shook swarm gets rid of everything (including the varroa feasting on unhatched winter bees) and starts the year with almost no disease in the colony.
2) Bailey comb change: a gentler version of the shook swarm, bees are gradually moved into a new hive by encouraging the queen and her colony to climb up into a clean brood box frame by frame.

***********

To me those 2 systems are quite childish thinking. ...Gradually moved....

Point 1) is used when the worst disease is in a hive: AFB

2) Clean brood box? Bees keep brood boxes clean.

If you do not want to use combs any more for brood, you move them over the excluder.

.
Looks like "clean comb neurosis"

.
 
Finman please please tell me that again a little more in detail. So I can learn please.
 
behive1234 said:
Finman please please tell me that again a little more in detail. So I can learn please.
Click to expand...

about what details?

What are your problems?

We just wrote about swarming.


First is swarming preventing: what to do that colony does not get swarming fever

Second: how to cut fever when it emerges.





.
 
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I followed your link and it said PAGE NOT FOUND, :hairpull:
 
Amari said:
Yes, but he's my tutoree! He is coming on fast but not yet completed a season
so hardly ready to do Demarees etc which I regard as the most difficult of all colony manipulations.
Click to expand...

Do you trust him enough to look after your colonies?
Why not teach him something simple, like placing queen with frame in nuc box etc. There's plenty of time to explain how to do it.
He's gotta learn sometime.
There is always the chance that they won't swarm but then there is always sod's law.
 
oliver90owner said:
You rather answered your own post just above.

Do that and she will not be leaving in the next fortnight (with a Q/E below her).

Thanks Oliver
Confession: when I first posted i'd forgotten that QEx goes blow the Queen so as you say good chance that it will reduce or prevent swarming. I think I will try it on as many hives I have spare kit for. Posting on this forum certainly makes one regret wooly thinking!
Click to expand...
 
Tim1606 said:
Do you trust him enough to look after your colonies?
Why not teach him something simple, like placing queen with frame in nuc box etc. There's plenty of time to explain how to do it.
He's gotta learn sometime.

Plenty of time before 8th May? Depends on the weather.
Placing Q with frame in nuc box? First you have to find the Queen in 7 hives and have 7 nuc boxes. Actually, I haven't heard of that method of swarm control. Does it work?
Click to expand...
 
Amari said:
Tim1606 said:
Do you trust him enough to look after your colonies?
Why not teach him something simple, like placing queen with frame in nuc box etc. There's plenty of time to explain how to do it.
He's gotta learn sometime.

Plenty of time before 8th May? Depends on the weather.
Placing Q with frame in nuc box? First you have to find the Queen in 7 hives and have 7 nuc boxes. Actually, I haven't heard of that method of swarm control. Does it work?
Click to expand...

This was posted on here by Poly Hive a few years back and i have used it with good success.

On finding queen cells (none of which are sealed) during a regular inspection.

Making up the nuc

1. Find the queen and place her with the frame she is on in a nuc box. Remove all queen cells from this frame.
2. Add two more frames of brood and shake in bees from two more frames.
3. Add a frame of stores.
4. Close with a dummy board and feed if necessary.
5. Take to new site.

The colony

1. Check the combs in the colony carefully. Remove only very large, nearly sealed queen cells. Remove ALL queen cells bar one open one, and the youngest one you can find.
2. Pick an open queen cell with a larva, in a good position, and mark on the frame with a drawing pin.
3. Fill up any gaps with spare frames and close up the colony. Place foundation frames on either side of the brood.
4. One week later, check the marked frame and do not shake the frame.
5. Leave the colony for three weeks before checking for a laying queen.
6. Build up nucleus into a colony or unite later. Never leave more than one queen cell in a colony!
Click to expand...
 
Amari said:
I am away in the middle 2 weeks of May and fear a repetition of the swarming frenzy of 2012 in my absence. Does anyone have experience of using the Bailey comb exchange as a means of reducing the risk?.
Click to expand...

In this case, when it is about reducing the risk of swarms whilst you are away (rather than dealing with hives already making QCs) there are some alternatives to doing a BCC. You can stick a foundationless frame or two into the brood nest, or try "checker boarding" around Mar/April so that they keep expanding upwards rather than go into swarm preps (apparently). Or you could make up some nucs by taking frames of stores/brood so that they need to build numbers up again before thinking about swarming.

I went on holiday last year in August and returned to find a small swarm, so maybe the little buggers just "know"!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
.
Two weeks are not long time to be away.
May is enlangening time of hives.

Biggest hives swarm first. You may trick to biggest hives and trust that smaller do not swarm.

Give extra box under the brood box that bees can enlarge downwards. It does not affect hive's heat economy.

You may give to bigger hives a foundation box under the brood. Then put an excluder over foundation box and into the box queen and a brood frame.
The hive is obliged to draw foundations and it will hinder swarming aims.

If you add super, you may at same time give a box under brood box too.


You may start preparations one week before leaving. Lift capped brood frames over the excluder and give instead foundations to the queen to be layed.
If bees start to draw foundations, it is a good sign. Then before leaving lift the capped brood again over the excluder and give more foundations.


If some hive has eggs in queen cell cups, then false swarm is only way to handle the hive.

.
 
Finman,

May could be the height of swarming in the UK. The OSR is likely finished (unless we get another season like last year). Once again the problem of trying to keep bees by dates, not prevailing conditions. The OP will be back after holiday and blaming us for the havoc in the apiary or perhaps back to a bunch of unmated queens (as in the last coule of seasons).
 
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