Best way to replace a Drone Laying Queen?

I've had a few problems with one of my colonies...

Lost the Queen

They reared a new Queen

She turned out to be a drone layer

Some people have advised me to cull the colony because they probably won't accept a new queen, but I want to give them a chance at least! I've managed to find a mated queen to replace the DLQ - she will arrive hopefully tomorrow.

I'm looking for advice as to the best way to manage the introduction of the new queen to give me the best chance possible of success.

I will of course remove the DLQ before introducing the new queen. I've been advised by the supplier to remove the new queen's attendents and put the cage in for 24 hours before removing the plastic tab covering the fondant.

A few questions come to mind....

Where should I position the cage in the brood chamber?

I have 2-3 frames of drone brood - should I put the cage in between two frames of this drone brood?

Should I put the cage in the middle of a frame or suspend it from the top bar?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Some people have advised me to cull the colony

I am glad that those have been ignored. Uniting and shaking out the bees in front of other colonies must be better alternatives before culling the colony. 'More regular' queen introducers will be along but, I would not necessarily be heeding the 24 hour advice. It could take longer.

Regards, RAB

oliver90owner said:

.... 'More regular' queen introducers will be along but, I would not necessarily be heeding the 24 hour advice. It could take longer.

Regards, RAB

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Thanks RAB. I trust your nerves have steadied a bit since your experience on Saturday!

I've been searching through the forum and some say to leave it 2-3 days before removing the plastic tab. I suppose leaving it longer can't do any harm.

If you can position cage so that one surface is on the top of a frame ( you will need an eke or some surgery to your crown board) so that bees have access to top surface but her legs are safe from interference then so much the better. Failing that hanging from between top frames is OK. Should be where bees are concentrated, so between open brood best.

Way longer than 24 hours needed: personally I'd have her in AT LEAST 5 days before removing plastic tab. They will demolish the candy remarkably quickly, so don't rely on that to significantly delay release.

Once you have removed plastic tab, use willpower to resist inspection for at least another 5 days.

Unfortunately it's still a lottery as to whether they will accept her.

plumberman said:

If you can position cage so that one surface is on the top of a frame ( you will need an eke or some surgery to your crown board) so that bees have access to top surface but her legs are safe from interference then so much the better. Failing that hanging from between top frames is OK. Should be where bees are concentrated, so between open brood best.

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Ok - do you mean to secure the cage on top of one of the frames so that there is no access to the underside?

plumberman said:

Way longer than 24 hours needed: personally I'd have her in AT LEAST 5 days before removing plastic tab. They will demolish the candy remarkably quickly, so don't rely on that to significantly delay release.

Once you have removed plastic tab, use willpower to resist inspection for at least another 5 days.

Unfortunately it's still a lottery as to whether they will accept her.

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Willpower might be a problem

Thanks for the reply.

Yes - they clearly need access to her via the top surface to feed /distribute pheremones. It's not a necessity, but another thing I like to do to improve chance of acceptance.


Willpower - it's your £30(/insert actual cost/)!

plumberman said:

Yes - they clearly need access to her via the top surface to feed /distribute pheremones. It's not a necessity, but another thing I like to do to improve chance of acceptance.


Willpower - it's your £30(/insert actual cost/)!

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Only £20 actually, but will try my best not to peek!

I'll make a small eke to accommodate the queen cage on the top bar of the frame. I have not heard of this technique before, but if it improves the chances of the new queen being accepted I'll give it a go!

Thanks for the advice.

Good luck.

Have a look at this site: where I got the idea from. It's the section starting Steve Taber method.

http://www.*****************/bee/queenintro.html

Sorry, link not allowed.

Google "cushman steve taber"

Is there any use in giving them a good smoking after killing the D layer to try and disperse the DLQ's smell? Or would that not work in the hive? It's just I've seen people advise it to get rid of a queens smell from the site of a swarm. I have a queen waiting to mate, and may be in this exact same position if unlucky.

plumberman said:

Good luck.

Have a look at this site: where I got the idea from. It's the section starting Steve Taber method...

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Thanks - I managed to find the link

This is my first ever attempt at requeening and I don't even know what type of cage the queen will come in, but I do have a Butler cage if I need to transfer the queen into it.

Silly question maybe, but will the queen be able to fly?

I'm just wondering if I need to transfer her what precautions I need to take to keep her from running or flying away! I need to get her attendants out of the cage, so I'll need to open the cage anyway.

Any tips on how to do this safely?

Use a clear plastic bag to realease them into then re-catch the queen. Yes the queen can fly.

kazmcc said:

Is there any use in giving them a good smoking after killing the D layer to try and disperse the DLQ's smell? Or would that not work in the hive? It's just I've seen people advise it to get rid of a queens smell from the site of a swarm. I have a queen waiting to mate, and may be in this exact same position if unlucky.

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Good luck getting your queen mated!

I thought mine was ok when I saw eggs after 3 weeks from emergence, but sadly not. She now seems to have vanished completely! I spent about an hour going through the hive today looking for her. There were no eggs or young larvae in the hive so if she is still there she's not laying any more. I can only hope that the bees knew she was no good and killed her.

VEG said:

Use a clear plastic bag to realease them into then re-catch the queen. Yes the queen can fly.

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Thanks. Simple when you know how....

Busybee123 said:

Thanks. Simple when you know how....

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And saves the indignant attendants having a go at you too

susbees said:

And saves the indignant attendants having a go at you too

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Of course! Hadn't thought of that!

Busybee123 said:

Good luck getting your queen mated!

I thought mine was ok when I saw eggs after 3 weeks from emergence, but sadly not. She now seems to have vanished completely! I spent about an hour going through the hive today looking for her. There were no eggs or young larvae in the hive so if she is still there she's not laying any more. I can only hope that the bees knew she was no good and killed her.

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Thank you I'm counting on thousands of years of survival, but seems it doesn't always work like that LOL

kazmcc said:

Thank you I'm counting on thousands of years of survival, but seems it doesn't always work like that LOL

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If mine are anything to go by it's a miracle they're not extinct!

Bees really can be contrary little beasties!

Caged queen has been in the hive for over 24 hours. Cage is attached to the top bar of one of the frames and a small "eke" the same height as the cage was inserted below the crown board to give one bee space between the top of the cage and the underside of the crown board. Cage has wooden blocks in both ends, and a small piece of paper was jammed in with the removable block on one end so that when the wooden block is removed, paper is left behind, which the bees will chew through.

Apologies for the poor quality of the photo - it was taken on my phone through the clear plastic crown board.

Bees are pretty much all over the butler cage.

How will I know when it's time to open the cage?

If you watch carefully you will see that they are biting the cage= not good. When ok to release, the bees will be virtually ignoring the cage. Like I said before, often takes 5 days +.

Don't worry about her- despite this behaviour they are still feeding her and will continue to do so.

plumberman said:

If you watch carefully you will see that they are biting the cage= not good. When ok to release, the bees will be virtually ignoring the cage. Like I said before, often takes 5 days +.

Don't worry about her- despite this behaviour they are still feeding her and will continue to do so.

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Thanks for the reply plumberman.

That's what I wondered - i.e. how much the bees interest in the cage will have to decrease before I open it.

There's so many bees over the cage at the moment it's nearly impossible to see the queen inside - but I did see a glimpse of her. It looked as if she was walking upside down on the inside of the top of the cage!

If they continue to feed her I assume therefore that there will always be some activity around the cage?

Thanks for putting me on to this method of queen introduction - I'm really interested how it turns out.