How much brood right now........

shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Cazza said:
I'm with you Craig.
If anyone is thinking about looking, please don't!!!!! (Unless you have a real reason to and I can't think why you would.) Now is NOT the time of year to poke them about.
Cazza
Click to expand...

Nobody is thinking of looking or encouraging looking.
I was encouraging thinking based on facts and your understanding of your bees, therefore discouraging looking !
 
Pete D said:
Nobody is thinking of looking or encouraging looking.
I was encouraging thinking based on facts and your understanding of your bees, therefore discouraging looking !
Click to expand...

Really? I thought you were so planned to open all my hives to count.. But the men in white coats came and stopped me..:winner1st:
 
Haha. This thread is wonderfully madcap and I do not want to add to the confusion so here, hopefully, is my last post in it.

My bees are broody
I found mites, so needed OA
OA is much less effective with brood, so I decided to sacrifice any brood there was.
Sunday was a magnificent day (as was today) and there was barely a bee in the hive at one stage. The effectiveness was in my newbie judgment well worth the (almost zero, or at least no more than a spring opening) disturbance.
I quickly went through the hive and found no brood.
The bees stopped flying and I put on OA.
I think my hive is pretty typical but many voices at my BKA have told me not to be afraid of opening in winter FOR GOOD CAUSE and yesterday was an incredible day anyway.

Now in terms of what it tells others about brood, one distortion might be that I DID have Apiguard on. A number of reasons; to get some mites, but also because now I WANTED a brood break. It's off now and in New Year, she is getting a big pollen patty and firm instructions, in the words of Finman, to "giddap!". It might be that the Apiguard had an effect; I don't know. But when Pete says he thinks brood minimum might have been months ago, don't listen to me.
 
TryingToLetThemBee said:
Sunday was a magnificent day (as was today) .
Click to expand...

I had a day out in London yesterday, travelled down the M11, through the Blackwall tunnel and then right turn to Brixton. Met a beekeeper selling up and loaded up my van after exchanging a few bob.
I then travelled west over the river, through Chelsea and Kensington (my birth place) down to Hammersmith then onto the A40 across to Northolt to have Sunday lunch with my Dad.
Not sure how close I got to you, it was a pleasant day but I was glad I had my jacket on between the van and pub.

Glad your bees are fine and that you have given them the best possible chance of winter survival. As you say in an earlier thread I hope you are not queenless too. Good luck in the spring build up, I will watch with interest how your non average hive gets on. Good luck.
 
VEG said:
I just wanted other new beekeepers to be aware
it is not the time of year to be poking around in the hive.


Craig
Click to expand...

That is best What You Can do. Keep out of hives.

Peeping into hive does not help the bees.
What Then if They have brood? Are You taken brood away or What?
 
Last edited:
TryingToLetThemBee said:
Of course what I mean to say is we should never open them without good cause.

I was heavily influenced by this http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02225761 paper that puts brood minimum far before "first hard frost plus 21" and all that and my one observation supports it.
Click to expand...

So no good cause then basically.

As for mine - this lot in the past have closed right dowen winter times - evidence of stores cappings in the lobbies of the under floor entrances but no obvious evidence of brood cappings underneath probably a small amount of brood in the hives but not much and the only time i shall be opening the hives is to put Oxalic on. faffing around with an inspection now is going to do more damage IMHO than an infestation of mites emanating from any capped brood.
 
Judging by the debris on the insert trays most of my hives had brood 2 weeks ago, on 2-4 frames towards the front of the hive.
 
No idea...from Late October - mid February my hives are a mystery unto them selves...I would guess at 1-3 frames of Bios - but would never open to check
 
Last edited:
On the London Beekeepers Association face book page Dr Karin Alton of the University of Sussex – Laboratory of Apiculture and Social Insects (LASI) posted-

hello! Latest research results from LASI indicate that between the dates of 10th december and christmas is the optimal time for oxalic acid treatment. Please check for sealed brood and destroy any, say, 48 hours before applying acid.


This is not published yet and perhaps she was jumping the gun by posting it but as someone who has managed perfectly well without the need to treat with oxalic find this advice just crazy.
 
Last edited:
Tom Bick said:
On the London Beekeepers Association face book page Dr Karin Alton of the University of Sussex – Laboratory of Apiculture and Social Insects (LASI) posted-

hello! Latest research results from LASI indicate that between the dates of 10th december and christmas is the optimal time for oxalic acid treatment. Please check for sealed brood and destroy any, say, 48 hours before applying acid.


This is not published yet and perhaps she was jumping the gun by posting it but as someone who has managed perfectly well without the need to treat with oxalic find this advice just crazy.
Click to expand...

http://adventuresinbeeland.com/2013/12/07/the-great-facebook-oxalic-acid-controversy/

This might be a corker; I'm away thank goodness.
 
Tom Bick said:
On the London Beekeepers Association face book page Dr Karin Alton of the University of Sussex – Laboratory of Apiculture and Social Insects (LASI) posted-

hello! Latest research results from LASI indicate that between the dates of 10th december and christmas is the optimal time for oxalic acid treatment. Please check for sealed brood and destroy any, say, 48 hours before applying acid.


This is not published yet and perhaps she was jumping the gun by posting it but as someone who has managed perfectly well without the need to treat with oxalic find this advice just crazy.
Click to expand...

The unpublished work at LASI was presented and discussed at their Open Day this last summer.
The project was to compare the relative efficacy and relative risks of vaporising, trickling and spraying Oxalic.
It was on different ways of using Oxalic, not about whether, or when, to use it.
In order to 'level the playing field' between the experimental colonies, it was necessary to zero out all varroa sheltering in sealed brood cells.
This also maximises the anti-varroa treatment's effectiveness.

HOWEVER -
- I don't believe that the research compared different treatment timings, treatment weather conditions, or 'control' non-brood-culled colonies.
- and I don't believe that the scope of the research included much, if any, follow-up on the performance of the colonies - let alone proper comparison with any non-brood-culled but treated colonies.

In conversation, Mr Garbuzov was strongly of the opinion that (full inspection and) brood culling to increase effectiveness of the anti-varroa treatment was well worth any downside, but did not offer any evidence on that score.

I would note that any comb-spraying treatment (whether Lactic or Oxalic) necessarily involves frame removal, and that sealed-brood-culling would not add great additional disruption to that.
I'm not sure what the point might be of doing such sealed brood culling in a different inspection, 2 or 3 days before treatment. Perhaps it was simply more convenient for the experimenters' schedule?

However, it is important to note that there was no mention whatsoever of any research being (or having been) done as to comparative application dates... (ADDED - for treatment efficacy, let alone comparing dates against colony outcomes in the year ahead)
 
Last edited:
TryingToLetThemBee said:
http://adventuresinbeeland.com/2013/12/07/the-great-facebook-oxalic-acid-controversy/

This might be a corker; I'm away thank goodness.
Click to expand...

From that
Some further explanation and advice from Karin:
...
“Between 10th dec to 24th [in the UK] is the time with least likely/fewest sealed brood.
Click to expand...

What research supports that statement, which contradicts Jeffree's 7 years of research?
Jeffree => http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02225761
ADDED QUOTE
In 367 examinations of healthy honeybee colonies during each of the months September to March inclusive, conducted over 7 years, the quantities of brood present and the quantities of pollen in the combs were determined. The brood minimum occurred in October, when brood was present in only 14% of colonies ...
Click to expand...


My understanding is that the bees should be loosely clustered (not very active) for optimal trickling, and that that was a significant reason for delaying treatment until the weather was colder than Jeffree's work might indicate as the optimal treatment time.
 
Last edited:
Tom Bick said:
as someone who has managed perfectly well without the need to treat with oxalic find this advice just crazy.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
As someone who does apply oxalic I too find this advice crazy - typical scientist really - can't see the woods for the trees.

It's called living in cuckoo land, and very dangerous when there are inexperienced newbies reading it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Jonnyl
Advice gratefully accepted.
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
JamezF
JamezF
R
Hive deaths
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
pargyle
pargyle
Vanterrier
Red letter day! (I hope...)
Replies
15
Views
733
thorn
thorn
Black Mountain Honey
BMH Overwintered Nucs - 2024
Replies
0
Views
792
Black Mountain Honey
Black Mountain Honey
M
Advice on next steps
Replies
11
Views
480
MrMouse
M

Latest posts

Back
Top