Worst winter ever

behive1234 said:

Treatments, (which are only a few years old,) for bees and animals and humans, are a BIG BUSSINESS.

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Sorry....but for bees this is just plain wrong. We are TINY business, actually in many cases not worth these evil conglomerates (like Max and VITA???) going after. Not saying they are charities, but no-one is going to get rich off the back of selling varroa treatments to UK beekeepers. The cost of having your treatment properly tested and registered, maintaining that registration, then selling it on accounts for a large part of the UK prices, not fat profits.

Even if you sold to ALL UK beekeepers you would still not get rich, even if the inflated govt figure for hive numbers were correct. Many (including me) work on far more economic options, so sales are low for expensive treatments.

Yes forking out your 20 odd quid for a pack of strips hurts, but a lot of that price just pays for official stuff, and profit for the middle man. The manufacturer gets a LOT less than half. Does not make a big business.

Actually small cell is a proven myth, and has been a disaster that has caused heavy cash losses to people I thought would have known better, as this one looked like a lemon right from the off some years ago. One guy admits sinking 60K into changing to small cell, and it had precisely zero effect. There is a very sneaky background story to small cell, but way way off topic for this thread.

even if off topic can we have the story ITLD please

dpearce4 said:

even if off topic can we have the story ITLD please

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just getting mu cocoa now

I have been known to be wrong, and may well be wrong again, but my thoughts are that behive1234 may in fact have not been referring to bees only.

Into the lions den said:

Actually small cell is a proven myth, and has been a disaster that has caused heavy cash losses to people I thought would have known better, as this one looked like a lemon right from the off some years ago. One guy admits sinking 60K into changing to small cell, and it had precisely zero effect. There is a very sneaky background story to small cell, but way way off topic for this thread.

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dpearce4 said:

even if off topic can we have the story ITLD please

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Yes please, I'm sure nobody would mind a new thread about it.

Yes please ... this off topic thread is so far off topic that we could do with another off topic thread to get it back on topic ... if you see what I mean ?

jenkinsbrynmair said:

<snip>
In the words of my carpenter father.
"I may not have gone to medical school and qualified as a gynaecologist (you can probably tell me if I spelt that correctly) .....

But I know a 2@ when I see one"​

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What's a 2ampersat JBM?

I think that small cell theory only ever gets mentioned these days by the new wave of beekeepers who read about it on the Internet thinking it must be right as that's what the bees do but in reality if anyone was to study natural comb for even a short time would see the bees produce worker comb with various sized cells from perhaps smaller than the so called small cell to slightly larger than standard foundation. This may be by design but most likely just random and more than likely created as they join combs together. I agree this thread is so off topic a bit further won't make any difference.

.
Sugar dusting and small cell have been proved a myth, but 'do nothing' continues its strong living.

.

Karol said:

What's a 2ampersat JBM?

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Technical term for a foofoo valve

jenkinsbrynmair said:

Technical term for a foofoo valve

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Lost me there JBM.

I've heard of gate valves,
I've heard of diaphragm valves,
I've even heard of ball valves,
But I ain't never heard of no foofoo valves!

Karol said:

Lost me there JBM.

I've heard of gate valves,
I've heard of diaphragm valves,
I've even heard of ball valves,
But I ain't never heard of no foofoo valves!

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It sounds like one thats broken.

Systems Nomal, All FooFoo'd Up.

Karol said:

Lost me there JBM.

I've heard of gate valves,
I've heard of diaphragm valves,
I've even heard of ball valves,
But I ain't never heard of no foofoo valves!

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Time you got out a bit more I think

Tom Bick said:

I think that small cell theory only ever gets mentioned these days by the new wave of beekeepers who read about it on the Internet thinking it must be right as that's what the bees do but in reality if anyone was to study natural comb for even a short time would see the bees produce worker comb with various sized cells from perhaps smaller than the so called small cell to slightly larger than standard foundation. This may be by design but most likely just random and more than likely created as they join combs together. I agree this thread is so off topic a bit further won't make any difference.

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Yep ... Like you Tom I'm foundationless and I see quite a variation of the cell size in the comb they have been allowed to build under their own architectural decisions. As you say, some larger than worker foundation size and some much smaller.

I can't see any real justification in trying to force bees to go to smaller cells (as the 'small cell lobby' suggested) but I like the idea that bees build what they want. Whether this contributes to the health and well being of colonies is up for debate but I would suggest that bees know what they are doing when left to get on with it and I do see, in my bees, some rewarding characteristics.

pargyle said:

Whether this contributes to the health and well being of colonies is up for debate but I would suggest that bees know what they are doing when left to get on with it and I do see, in my bees, some rewarding characteristics.

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Bee diseases have developed before foundations have started to use 150 y ago.
Cell size or natural combs have nothing to do with bee diseases.

As you well know, wild animals have lots of disases and parasites.

Finman said:

Bee diseases have developed before foundations have started to use 150 y ago.
Cell size or natural combs have nothing to do with bee diseases.

As you well know, wild animals have lots of disases and parasites.

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Who said anything about diseases ?

pargyle said:

Who said anything about diseases ?

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No.
You said health and well being.

You know, bees are healthy in foundation combs too.

.

Dishmop said:

I have been known to be wrong, and may well be wrong again, but my thoughts are that behive1234 may in fact have not been referring to bees only.

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Of course......................but bees were included which are the topic of this group unless I have strayed into the wrong place (not unknown now I am past 60......who am I again????).

I make no comment about the profitability of treatments for cows, sheep, cats etc....... However, the bigger the market the more the incentive to enter it, thus more competition, thus sharper pricing. We pay through the nose in the UK, and not just for medications, for being so tiny. Everyone holding to their preferred type of hive, with at time near religious conviction, no matter how much it costs to be so niche, when the bees don't really mind, is a very very expensive way to operate.

In Spain last week. Whole assembled hives, Langstroth of course and wooden, complete with assembled prewired frames, including the floors and metal covered roof, painted and ready to wax and put bees in. 38 euros.....and that was a reseller, sort of like a 'T' agent, not even the manufacturer, and list price before any discounts. (£27.73 at todays rates.) You struggle to buy a brood box in the flat for that at retail here.

Finman said:

No.
You said health and well being.

You know, bees are healthy in foundation combs too.

.

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I agree ....

What I said was "Whether this contributes to the health and well being of colonies is up for debate" ....

I see healthy bees in my foundationless hives but I don't know to what extent this is influenced by them building their own comb .. and I have no way of telling. But ... I work on the premise that if it works then continue to do it ...