Formic acid

How useful is Formic acid for mite control? Where can i get formic acid in the UK? I understand that there is a product called 'Mite away' which conveniently has impregnated pads, but i can't locate them.

Formic is pretty much out of date now as oxalic is as, if not more effective, and a LOT less hassle both for operator and bees.

PH

I used to use it quite a lot as a summer or spring treatment and it can be very effective at knocking down mites. However, it is very temperature sensitive and giving the bees the right dose is tricky. However, it is popular in a number of countries and has the big advantage that unlike any other chemical treatment it can kill mites in sealed cells.

I used to squirt 20ml of 60% onto a bit of cardboard laid across the top bars but in Europe you can get more involved gadgets with adjustable wicks - to give better control of the dosage.

I bought mine from Maisemore I think - it is not normally available mail order so you have to turn up at their shop. Other suppliers probably stock it as well.

Mite Away is more convenient to use but expensive compared to using a bottle and plastic syringe. They are a bit like disposable nappies in a plastic envelope which you slit open.

Very useful, but as rooftops says the dosage is tricky - one can kill bees (including the queen).

Available from Bonnyman chemicals amomst others.

I have the evaporators and am careful when using it. It is a strong acid and requires careful handling.

RAB

I bought my formic from an industrial chemical supplier.

The Germans were very keen on it back in the 90's and also lactic but as I said it is rather out of date now.

PH

There is a steep learning curve in the use of formic,mainly loss of older queens if you don't get it right,especially with the flash treatments.
There are various evaporators available,like nassenhieder for example,but the mitaway II pads are no longer made by NOD as far as i know,the new product is MAQ's,but not yet available in this country,and there is a supplier on the south coast when they do become available.
Albion chemicals in Bristol sell food grade formic suitable for treating,85% then dilute as required.

This from a previous post on the forum..........................

MAQS™ - Next Generation Varroa Treatment

NOD Apiary Products - Real control for the Varroa Mite.


MAQS™ Apimondia - FRENCH, COMMUNIQUE DE PRESSE
September 16, 2009 10:27 PM
Read more... |
MAQS™ Apimondia - English Press Release
September 16, 2009 9:38 PM
Read more... |
Read more... |


NOD Apiary Products introduced MAQS™ - The “Mite Away Quick Strip™” to the world on September 16th in Montpellier France at the 41st Congress of Apimondia.

MAQS™ is the first truly new Varroa treatment in many years. Many beekeepers have been forced by this lack of available and innovative treatments to rely on using chemical treatments that have not only been hurting their bees but contaminating wax and honey.


MAQS™ moves a giant step forward by allowing beekeepers to not only treat DURING the honey flow BUT to target the Varroa directly were they live and breed. The MAQS™ is a single application treatment The treatment period is only seven days, and upon completion the spent strip can either be left in the hive for disposal by the bees or can simply be thrown into the compost. It is 100% compostable.


MAQS™ has been shown to be exceptionally effective in killing Varroa under worker brood cap - while they are either being born or mating BUT doing this without causing any significant damage to the pupating larva.


Trials have been conducted in Canada, Hawaii, Florida, Texas and three sites in France.


MAQS™ is a new formulation of Formic Acid and is “Patent Pending”. Each MAQS™ strip is less than 6mm/ 1/4” thick so that it fits easily into the bee space. Each treatment consists of two strips placed either between brood chambers or on top between brood and honey supers. No additional equipment is required and excellent efficacy has been obtained in temperatures up to 33C/92F.


Product will be available in January/February 2010 for general distribution as registrations are obtained.




http://www.miteaway.com/MAQSTM/maqstm.html

Lactic acid spray is perhaps a better alternative to formic acid during the active season, although it does not kill mites sealed in brood cells.

.
Formic acid is not out of date. Not at all.
Some years ago European varroa group , and this year Canada, recommended tree stuffs

- thymol and its variations
- formic acid
- oxalic.

Lactic acid is too laborous. It was favorite 20 yeas ago. But it works in small scale.
Oxalic acid water spray do the same better.

I just bought 30 litres formic acid. Price was 50 euros. It is 76% and it is used to make cow forage from fresh grass.

Formic acid and thymol can be used when day temp is +15C. When temp rises over +25C, it may kill up to 30% of queens.
When it was used under 20C, no queen losses occured. (Canadian research)

thymol products are expencive. 2 euros per pad. 30 ml per hive formic acid does not pay much. with 30 litres I get
1000 dosaces from that. The cost per dosage is 5 cents.

Thymol and formic acid are used after honey harvest at the same time when winter feeding is on.

.

.
If you put into google "formic acid varroa", you get good reports how to use the stuff.

Midland?

!992.. The Germans were saying Lactic was labour intensive and dubious to efficacy


This is 2011.

PH

.
Report from Denmark 2005 says that no one uses lactic spray, neither oxalic acid spray.
Oxalic acid spray has bee a while used but stopped then.

Thanks Finman.

Precisely.

PH

Mamahilz said:

How useful is Formic acid for mite control?

Click to expand...

Let's not forget that formic acid is effective not only against varroa, but against tracheal mite as well. Therefore, if it is in the integrated pest management programme, we can expect that tracheal mite infestation will not surprise us.

Next spring I plan to use formic acid to treat the queenless brood part when I make artificial swarms. In August I might use it too, but only if I notice significant varroa level.

.
Today I read quite new research from Ataturk university. It was said that 140 different hard chemicals have been tested to varroa. And these university guys make it as day work.

One result from this research was that oxalic trickling together with tymol gone no advantage compared to trickling.

Special method is that thymol oil has been mixed to perlite powder. It was effective.
But idea, that you put into the hive all kind of powders, it is quite odd. It surely will go into honey and to bees' digestion system.

Yes we kill mites, but main goal is to produce clean human food.
Sand in the honey - not good..and then on the bottom of tea cup.

But now I go to change winter tyres. It is illegal now to use summer tyres in Finland.
If I have a collision, insuarance does not pay accident of illegal car.
I have here 10 mm ice cover every where, on the car, on roads and on hive roofs.
Sun does not heat any more. Sun is just and just over tree canopy. It is dark here after 15 a'clock.

Finman,
According some experiments FA affect mites in capped cells. What is your experience in this aspect?

There is another thing I cannot understand. If FA affect only mites on adult bees, we need a "full cycle" treatment. You recommend 3 weeks treatment. But mites enter the cell just before capping, which means two week treatment is sufficient to target the "full cycle". Is the third week treatment really necessary?

When I did my FA treatments I used 20ml every 3 days to a total of 3 applications.

FA is supposed to kill sealed mites because it has a low molecular weight and because the cappings of brood are slightly porous - unlike honey cappings.

However, I never found any definitive advice how to use it - everyone seemed to have their own different method. I also did not find any figures on how effective it was against mites in sealed cells.

.
No stuff kills mites under capping.

I have not made any researches.
Follow original recipes.

RoofTops said:

FA is supposed to kill sealed mites
nd any figures on how effective it was against mites in sealed cells.

Click to expand...

show me a research.

This report of a trial of a FA treatment in Hawaii suggets mites were killed in brood: http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/sustainag/news/articles/V1-wright-varroa.pdf

"Adult mites under capped cells
suffered a significant mortality
e f f e c t f rom the t r e atment ,
approximately half of the adult
mites were found dead within the
capped cells. Preliminary data
suggest that immature mites
suffered even a higher mortality,
with over 90% of all young mites
dying following treatment."

RoofTops said:

This report of a trial of a FA treatment in Hawaii suggets mites were killed in brood: http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/sustainag/news/articles/V1-wright-varroa.pdf

"Adult mites under capped cells
suffered a significant mortality
e f f e c t f rom the t r e atment ,
approximately half of the adult
mites were found dead within the
capped cells. Preliminary data
suggest that immature mites
suffered even a higher mortality,
with over 90% of all young mites
dying following treatment."

Click to expand...

And then....'

Lets suppose that 80% of mites are under cappings and we have 1000 mites.

800 are inside cells. Half will be killed. So we have 400 mites alive.

Dead rate is this way -60%.

We should have -95%. After that we have 50 mites alive which is too many.
After winter we should have not more than 5 mites alive in the hive. 10 is too many. The mite population will reach too early the critical level in late summer.

.