position of honey super?

I know there's a thread on this somewhere but I can't find it. When putting second super on, is it best to put it above or below the first super, and why?

below. cos thats what they say.

I believe that a number of reasons have been stated in the past for bottom supering.
Some of which are:-
The bees do not have to travel through the full super to get to the new super and hence the white wax cappings stay white and do not get discolored by the worker bees feet.
Moving the fuller super above an empty increases the forraging instinct in the bees by creating more distance between the brood and the stores.

There are also people that believe in top supering.

Personally I am bottom supering this year and find the added advantage is that when I just need to check if the super(s) are ready to extract I do not have to remove any other super(s) first and also the full supers are in the right position for clearing when I do want to remove them.

Again this is just my opinion and info gathered from reading articles / threads, there will probably be many more opinions and reasons for and against either method.

put the super on top. you can see at a glance when you need to add another super and less disturbance to the bees

As mentioned before there was research I read some years ago that suggested that having space above the brood nest stimulated nectar gathering.

Hence I bottom super.

PH

i suppose another good reason is that although it is a faff to have to take off part full super(s) to add the empty one when it comes to clearing and removing full super you just need to deal with the top one(s).

Poly Hive said:

As mentioned before there was research I read some years ago that suggested that having space above the brood nest stimulated nectar gathering.

Hence I bottom super.

PH

Click to expand...

That was the one. Sorry PH didn't remember who mentioned it but I remember reading it and to me at least it made sense!

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=66454#post66454


ADDING SUPERS FOR EXTRACTED HONEY.
The actual operation is about the simplest in beekeeping: with the super ready on a stand beside the hive, remove the crown-board and put it over the supers; smoke once, put on the excluder, and lift the supers on top of it. Total time, about twenty seconds. If you are using a plain zinc excluder, you will have to scrape the tops of the brood-frames to allow it to lie flat—a job best done by firm smoking and one determined stroke per frame, rather than by many delicate strokes.

Estimating the right time and order for adding supers is more difficult; the advice used to be to super when the first crumbs of fresh white wax began to appear at the tops of the brood frames, but this is now reckoned as too late. Probably the stock is really only ready for supers when, on removing the cover-board (with only a whiff of smoke), you find bees at the top of the six middle frames.

The first super must, if possible , be of drawn combs and not foundation. Bees cannot draw out foundation until warm weather and plentiful nectar arrive, and if you insist on their doing so, will often swarm with ample room at their disposal – “room” which they cannot use.
It is now considered that the second, third and fourth supers may be added on top of the first and allowed to remain there. It is true that a super of foundation will be fully drawn faster if one puts it below the first super as soon as the bees have half-occupied it, but honey farmers say this is done at the expense of work in No.1 super, and that the overall work in a bock of supers is no better by this means than by “top supering”.

Snags:
Adding a cuper to early: the result is to drive the bees down from it, because of the loss of heat.

Putting a second super of foundation under the No.1 super without letting the bees start work on it in the upper position: this disheartens the bees and may cause swarming in the same way as giving foundation only in the No.1 super.

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Radcliff omits reference to pollen in supers which is a valid point that hivemaker makes. He also omits the benefit of top supering enabling quick checks with large numbers of supers (Hivemaker). I've got stocks on 7 supers that are quite happily in the top box drawing foundation.

The point about faster drawing when bottom supering (PolyHive) is mentioned but the caveat is that work in supers above is retarded as work commences in the new supers below and the risk is partially filled supers and consequent wasted space, especially when foundation is being drawn.

Hope this helps...


Just found this paper which compares top and bottom supering. It might be of interest...Top Supering vs Bottom Supering
http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Publications/EffectsTopVsBottom.pdf

We were told that second super should go on top of the first, and subsequent supers go underneath so;

1
12
132
1432
15432

I was more concerned about getting them to cap off honey this year so I only added to the top. We didnt want to move partially capped frames to the top of the stack at the risk of them either stopping capping, or worse starting to move honey out and into the empty second super, which most likely is a ridiculous notion and next year we will try the method above

Bees store naturally from the top down and don't like 'gaps' so they'll work hard to fill the void, so second super 'under.'

IMO best if you only have a few colonies.

I leave super 1 as super 1. Bees often deposit an arc of pollen above the brood, in super 1.

Moggs said:

I leave super 1 as super 1. Bees often deposit an arc of pollen above the brood, in super 1.

Click to expand...

Yes, we have that - or they leave the arc empty ready for eggs.

Moggs said:

I leave super 1 as super 1. Bees often deposit an arc of pollen above the brood, in super 1.

Click to expand...

Only of you use worker sized comb

I have always used top supering, you can tell If the stock needs another super as soon as the C.B. is lifted, there is no need to disturb the colony further. I only extracted once at the end of the main flow.

huntsman666 said:

Bees store naturally from the top down and don't like 'gaps' so they'll work hard to fill the void, so second super 'under.'

IMO best if you only have a few colonies.

Click to expand...

So working on that theory, if you place 4 or 5 supers on a hive with foundation, they will start drawing the top super first,furthest away from the brood nest and work down towards the brood nest,and not start with the super immediately above the brood nest.

4 - 5 empty supers?

In the wild, they would have had the brood cells closer to stores. We beeks exclude the queen getting near the stores but not too far away. Hence we don't put all the supers on at once but gradually.

Besides, you're not going to help them produce wax with all that space to heat.

"Over super early, under super late" is a maxim I've read somewhere.

I've several hives each with 2 nearly full supers but hardly any frames actually capped.

with a poor weather forecast for the next week do I add another super on top (I've used all my drawn super comb so it has to be foundation) or do I leave them to cap this and take them off at the end of the month? (when hopefully it will be capped.)

huntsman666 said:

4 - 5 empty supers?

In the wild, they would have had the brood cells closer to stores. We beeks exclude the queen getting near the stores but not too far away. Hence we don't put all the supers on at once but gradually.

Besides, you're not going to help them produce wax with all that space to heat.

Click to expand...

Just inquiring to your comment that the bees work from the top down,in a beehive,as its hive bees we are talking about i thought,not in the wild, so say you were moving a strong colony onto crop with a heavy nectar flow,say borage, which they can easily fill a super in a week or less,your going away for three weeks and cannot be around to add extra supers one at a time...so you stick on four...will the bees start from the top and work down.

Or even if the queen is not excluded from moving where she wants,and you run lots of standard brood box's as supers and brood area,as i do....you stick on two extra brood box's,will the bees move right to the top and start drawing down,or draw the foundation upwards.

my new one goes on top

Just interested to know if we take into account that bees work downwards in a natural environment does anyone on the forum super under the BB or have in the past.

And not just the odd one over winter but summer