Thought hive was QL, turns out it wasn't. What to do with purchased Queen?

[davie]

Hi All,

I am new and having a great afternoon reading through the forum. My question requires a back story and why I ended up purchasing a new queen.

I purchased 2 local 5 frame nucs in July and set them up South facing in national hives. I have been feeding them 1:1 sugar syrup to help get the established before winter and to encourage srawing out comb on foundation. Nuc 'A' was stronger than there other and more active however, I never saw the queen. I didn't want to disturb the hive too much and inspected every 10 days to look but failed to see queen. (I found the queen in the other hive and all is well). Gradually I noticed hive 'A' reducing activity to/from the hive. We are around the 20th August now. I inspect the hive and find no capped brood, larvae or eggs. Furthermore, the bee numbers have visually reduced, I could still not locate the queen and I found 9 queen cells and 2 emergency queen cells. All the queen cells looked open and I could not determine whether they had been sealed and 'hatched', or whether they had been produced by the bees in swarm preperations. I saught advice and determined that swarming was very unlikely to happen for a small colony at the end of the summer. Thus I concluded that I could have lost the queen by crushing, transferring frames from the nuc to the hive, or when I had the frames out inspecting them, and the hive was queenless.

The temprement of the hive had also got worse so with this, and no signs of brood I decided I needed to buy a new mated queen to try and save the colony before the winter. Unfortunately (or not!) I then went on holiday for 10 days but the queen I ordered was due to be shipped on the day of my return, so worked out well.

Yesterday (8th Sep) the queen arrived. I had previously made the preperations by removing the queen cells so went to put the queen in the hive for 48 hrs. I opened the hive and can instantly see more activity. Inside the hive there is brood at all stages (eggs, larvae, capped), no queen cells. Plus I also saw an unmarked queen (the queens from the nuc were marked).

So now I am assumming the original queen from the nuc 'A' did swarm. But I don't understand why and cannot find any reasoning in the usual begginers books. Early August there was a big wasp problem but I tried to manage this by using traps around the hive entrance and reducing the entrance size. Could this stress have caused the queen to swarm?

But my dilemma now is what to do wth the purchase mated queen? Currently she is in the hive, in the cage waiting for me to remove the tab and allow access to the candy. At the time I was going to proceed with introducing the new queen, release her and then the stronger queen would survive. But this seems a bit of a waste. I don't think I have enough spare stores/brood to start a small 2 frame nuc to over winter her in.

Its been a steep learning curve but wondered what someone else would do with my situation before I release the queen?

Thanks

 

[Murox]

If you cant create a nuc to over winter, ask another local beekeeper.
You may well find that your new caged queen is dead as you have left her in a hive with an active queen, Bees don't usually tolerate strangers when they have one of their own.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So now I am assumming the original queen from the nuc 'A' did swarm. But I don't understand why and cannot find any reasoning in the usual begginers books.

What do you mean by emergency queen cells and queen cells? They are all queen cells.
Did you overfeed them so that they swarmed from lack of space?
How often have you been looking in?
I’d offer the new queen to somebody in your association

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What do you mean by emergency queen cells and queen cells? They are all queen cells.
Did you overfeed them so that they swarmed from lack of space?

That would be my feeling
If the queen was left in the hive with another queen present - there's a good chance she'll be an ex queen now unfortunately.

 

[ericbeaumont]

did swarm. But I don't understand why

The swarming urge may have been present if the nuc had been strong & congested before you took delivery.

When feeding syrup it is best to take into account incoming nectar. Syrup + nectar = colony success, and if the urge is already with them, not much will prevent swarming except beekeeper checks every 7 days without fail.

Reason for 7-day checks: swarms usually leave the hive on day 8/9 when QCs are sealed. By day 10 half your colony will have long gone and emerging bees will disguise the loss. On day 7 you would have found advanced open QCs and been able to make a split or artificial swarm.

queen cells looked open and I could not determine whether they had been sealed and 'hatched'

A QC from which a virgin has emerged (only eggs hatch) will have a neat ragged edge to its mouth. An unsealed QC will be smooth at its mouth, prior to sealing with wax by workers.

After emergence bees often re-seal QC lids in order to confuse the beekeeper, so next time this happens, check by flipping the lid with the corner of a hive tool. If a cell has opened and been re-sealed the lid will flip open easily; if it doesn't budge, the virgin is yet to emerge.

didn't want to disturb the hive too much and inspected every 10 days to look but failed to see queen

Next season plan to check every 7 days and tick Hooper's 5 points. You do not need to see the queen but you must see BIAS - brood in all stages - and check for space, stores, disease and in season, queen cells. Checks will involve shaking bees off the combs abruptly into the brood box. Without the shake you will not have enough information to be able to make management decisions to avoid the loss of a swarm or tick the rest of the list.

 

[elainemary]

Hi All,

I am new and having a great afternoon reading through the forum. My question requires a back story and why I ended up purchasing a new queen.

I purchased 2 local 5 frame nucs in July and set them up South facing in national hives. I have been feeding them 1:1 sugar syrup to help get the established before winter and to encourage srawing out comb on foundation. Nuc 'A' was stronger than there other and more active however, I never saw the queen. I didn't want to disturb the hive too much and inspected every 10 days to look but failed to see queen. (I found the queen in the other hive and all is well). Gradually I noticed hive 'A' reducing activity to/from the hive. We are around the 20th August now. I inspect the hive and find no capped brood, larvae or eggs. Furthermore, the bee numbers have visually reduced, I could still not locate the queen and I found 9 queen cells and 2 emergency queen cells. All the queen cells looked open and I could not determine whether they had been sealed and 'hatched', or whether they had been produced by the bees in swarm preperations. I saught advice and determined that swarming was very unlikely to happen for a small colony at the end of the summer. Thus I concluded that I could have lost the queen by crushing, transferring frames from the nuc to the hive, or when I had the frames out inspecting them, and the hive was queenless.

The temprement of the hive had also got worse so with this, and no signs of brood I decided I needed to buy a new mated queen to try and save the colony before the winter. Unfortunately (or not!) I then went on holiday for 10 days but the queen I ordered was due to be shipped on the day of my return, so worked out well.

Yesterday (8th Sep) the queen arrived. I had previously made the preperations by removing the queen cells so went to put the queen in the hive for 48 hrs. I opened the hive and can instantly see more activity. Inside the hive there is brood at all stages (eggs, larvae, capped), no queen cells. Plus I also saw an unmarked queen (the queens from the nuc were marked).

So now I am assumming the original queen from the nuc 'A' did swarm. But I don't understand why and cannot find any reasoning in the usual begginers books. Early August there was a big wasp problem but I tried to manage this by using traps around the hive entrance and reducing the entrance size. Could this stress have caused the queen to swarm?

But my dilemma now is what to do wth the purchase mated queen? Currently she is in the hive, in the cage waiting for me to remove the tab and allow access to the candy. At the time I was going to proceed with introducing the new queen, release her and then the stronger queen would survive. But this seems a bit of a waste. I don't think I have enough spare stores/brood to start a small 2 frame nuc to over winter her in.

Its been a steep learning curve but wondered what someone else would do with my situation before I release the queen?

Thanks

As you’ve said the queen is in a cage with the tab on, so she will be safe and not dead. I wouldn’t remove the established new queen, she’s laying and the bees are happy. A travelled queen is trickier to introduce and why take the risk. Put it down to experience and offer her to another local beekeeper if you don’t have enough bees or drawn comb to make up a small Nuc.

On the other hand, a small colony can survive a winter (some beekeepers over winter really tiny colonies in extended Apideas or mini nics successfully). If you could spare just 1 frame of bees (making sure your established queen isn’t on it!) with some sealed brood on it too and if you could beg / borrow a drawn comb and buy some pollen sub, you could make up a dummied down small Nuc as an experiment. Or, if you’re a member of an association, ask around if anyone with a big hive will spare you a frame of bees (I would!), they will want to support and encourage a beginner. Keep an eye on it & see if you can over winter it. What’s to lose by trying, apart from a bit of expense? You’ll definitely learn something from it. Any equipment e.g. a Nuc you buy will always come in handy in the future.

P.s. an alternative scenario to swarming is you could have missed an emergency cell (easy to do) and you might have accidentally harmed the original queen rather than swarming - we’ll never know! Again just put it down to experience, bees constantly do things to surprise us and do stuff that isn’t in the books!

P.p.s Let us all know what you decide to do!