Swarms, queens, splits

[OH honey]

On 1/5/23 I made a vertical split of my surviving overwintered hive. After 6 days i inspected to check for QC,and had a slight panic and added a frame of eggs/larvae. Today the split swarmed. I caught it and rehoused it in a new hive. On inspecting, original hive is bouncing and has 2 supers on, one mostly capped, 2nd full of uncapped nectar. Some eggs on only 2 frames, but lots of BIAS.Fear is they might run out of space when brood hatches so plan to swap drawn comb for foundation.
Split hive, much depleted, had several QC and 1 with emerging Q. I carried on inspection and found 2nd Q ready to emerge. I helped her out and put her to one side and went back to first QC, but it was empty. As i couldnt guarantee she was in the hive, I put 2nd Q in as well hoping they'd just duke it out. So,my questions are
1.Is it usual for a split to swarm ( 23 days since split)?
2.Will she have mated prior to swarming or is she a virgin?
3. If the split hive has 2 virgins in it, will it swarm again? (so I know to be vigilant)
Ta

 

[ericbeaumont]

had a slight panic

Why? No EQCs in the split?

Fear is they might run out of space

Space in the bottom Q+ hive is best given with another box, or they may indeed try again.

1 Yes, unless you remove all but your chosen QC and repeat after 7 days, after which leave them for 3 weeks.

2 Virgin, with others to follow.

3 If you release all the virgins they will not swarm. If you miss a QC they will swarm. Shake bees off all frames, check thoroughly and remove everything that looks QCish.

 

[Curly green finger's]

On 1/5/23 I made a vertical split of my surviving overwintered hive. After 6 days i inspected to check for QC,and had a slight panic and added a frame of eggs/larvae. Today the split swarmed. I caught it and rehoused it in a new hive. On inspecting, original hive is bouncing and has 2 supers on, one mostly capped, 2nd full of uncapped nectar. Some eggs on only 2 frames, but lots of BIAS.Fear is they might run out of space when brood hatches so plan to swap drawn comb for foundation.
Split hive, much depleted, had several QC and 1 with emerging Q. I carried on inspection and found 2nd Q ready to emerge. I helped her out and put her to one side and went back to first QC, but it was empty. As i couldnt guarantee she was in the hive, I put 2nd Q in as well hoping they'd just duke it out. So,my questions are
1.Is it usual for a split to swarm ( 23 days since split)?
2.Will she have mated prior to swarming or is she a virgin?
3. If the split hive has 2 virgins in it, will it swarm again? (so I

Why? No EQCs in the split?


Space in the bottom Q+ hive is best given with another box, or they may indeed try again.

1 Yes, unless you remove all but your chosen QC and repeat after 7 days, after which leave them for 3 weeks.

2 Virgin, with others to follow.

3 If you release all the virgins they will not swarm. If you miss a QC they will swarm. Shake bees off all frames, check thoroughly and remove everything that looks QCish.

Can you explain why you would open all of the cells please Eric ,I was reading on another thread about it I know the reason but some beginners don’t.

 

[ericbeaumont]

why you would open all of the cells

If the emerging queens are released at the same time into the hive by the beekeeper, they (or the bees) will tussle and argue until one survives to mate & reign.

If you release what you believe to be all, but miss a hidden QC, the victor of the tussle will swarm, knowing that one QC remains to succeed.

 

[Curly green finger's]

If the emerging queens are released at the same time into the hive by the beekeeper, they (or the bees) will tussle and argue until one survives to mate & reign.

If you release what you believe to be all, but miss a hidden QC, the victor of the tussle will swarm, knowing that one QC remains to succeed.

Perfect! Thanks

 

[OH honey]

Why? No EQCs in the split?


Space in the bottom Q+ hive is best given with another box, or they may indeed try again.

1 Yes, unless you remove all but your chosen QC and repeat after 7 days, after which leave them for 3 weeks.

2 Virgin, with others to follow.

3 If you release all the virgins they will not swarm. If you miss a QC they will swarm. Shake bees off all frames, check thoroughly and remove everything that looks QCish.

Thx for response. Why panic? This is my 3rd yr beekeeping, so sometimes get things wrong. Will check the hive again for any QC missed.

 

[OH honey]

Thx for response. Why panic? This is my 3rd yr beekeeping, so sometimes get things wrong. Will check the hive again for any QC missed.

Found 1 more QC with an almost ready Q. So hopefully no more, and they can indeed duke it out.

 

[Garry R]

I have some interest in my bait hive which has the old comb with a bit of store area and the seemingly ubiquitous lemongrass oil drops. BUT is there a difference in the behaviour of scouts and foraging bees around the hive that would prepare you for an imminent arrival or a routine robbery? Any experience out there?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Found 1 more QC with an almost ready Q. So hopefully no more, and they can indeed duke it out.

The virgins will only sort themselves out if all are released by the beekeeper into the hive at the same time, as described earlier.

If you leave one virgin walking about and one in a sealed cell the colony will swarm with the virgin and the SQC will emerge to take over.

If you leave two SQCs the first out may swarm or may sting the other through the cell wall, but my money is on swarming, because they're strong and in the mood.

You can only control the outcome if you deprive the bees of options, so either release all the queens ready to emerge (and remove all other QCs) or reduce to one SQC only (if none have emerged) or allow only one virgin to emerge and remove all else.

 

[ericbeaumont]

After 6 days i inspected to check for QC,and had a slight panic and added a frame of eggs/larvae.

I wondered whether a slight panic was in repsonse to finding no EQCs after six days, and that was the reason you added a frame of open brood. Did you find EQCs at that time?

 

[OH honey]

I wondered whether a slight panic was in repsonse to finding no EQCs after six days, and that was the reason you added a frame of open brood. Did you find EQCs at that time?

I suspect not. Bizzarely I have filled in my bee book but failed to mention adding a frame or why. Can only assume I didnt find any EQC.

 

[OH honey]

The virgins will only sort themselves out if all are released by the beekeeper into the hive at the same time, as described earlier.

If you leave one virgin walking about and one in a sealed cell the colony will swarm with the virgin and the SQC will emerge to take over.

If you leave two SQCs the first out may swarm or may sting the other through the cell wall, but my money is on swarming, because they're strong and in the mood.

You can only control the outcome if you deprive the bees of options, so either release all the queens ready to emerge (and remove all other QCs) or reduce to one SQC only (if none have emerged) or allow only one virgin to emerge and remove all else.

I knocked down all QC I could find, other than the emerging Q's. Went back and rechecked, found a QC and opened it. Q was alive so removed her.

 

[ericbeaumont]

other than the emerging Q's.

Which you have now released?