Butt joint

[Eyeman]

Is one of these butt joints inherently stronger than the other? The short side goes inside or outside the long side. I’m constructing roofs for my nucs.

 

[JamezF]

I can't see that it will make any difference, and it's not as though they're taking any significant load.

James

 

[Rob H]

I cant view your image but if their either timber or poly it won't make a blind bit of difference, if timber glue and pin.

 

[Eyeman]

Thanks reason I asked was a nail into the grain end would be less secure. So would it be better to put the nail into the shorter piece’s grain end as it may have less stress on it?

 

[JamezF]

Unless you're planning to stand on it the roof is going to be under very little stress at all, so you're probably over-thinking things. If you are worried about the strength of the joint, use some waterproof glue as well. Because it's a roof and therefore may spend long periods being wet, or at least damp, I'd be tempted to use a D4-rated foaming (to penetrate the end grain well) PU glue rather than a D3 PVA-based one.

James

 

[Garry R]

Thanks reason I asked was a nail into the grain end would be less secure. So would it be better to put the nail into the shorter piece’s grain end as it may have less stress on it?

I make my roofs from pallet boards butt jointed with a nail and a smear of gorilla glue. The top is scrap ply glued ind pinned 6mm is fine. Pond liner wit a spray of carpet contact adhesive and edges fixed with short roofing felt nails. Pond liner 15mm below the edge boards so it drips clear. Line inside the roof with expanded polystyrene. Dirt cheap, light as a feather and have lasted years. No issues of it being wet or damp hence no delamination of the ply. If it gets wet then you have a puncture!!

 

[Newbeeneil]

I agree with James. Whatever you do to these joints the orientation of the joints will make no difference.
For maximum strength in this situation I would glue with a foaming PU glue then drill and screw a stainless steel screw into the end grain.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Unless you're planning to stand on it

It's a roof! what other use does it have whilst inspecting?

 

[JamezF]

It's a roof! what other use does it have whilst inspecting?

A table for the smoker and other useful kit? Unless of course you're one of those adrenalin-junkie beekeepers who like to risk setting fire to their gonads by holding the smoker between their legs?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Smoker sits on the neighbouring hive, hive tool stays in hand (in fact, I've arrived home before now before realising I'm still holding it) queen marking kit etc. in pockets

 

[JamezF]

Smoker sits on the neighbouring hive, hive tool stays in hand (in fact, I've arrived home before now before realising I'm still holding it) queen marking kit etc. in pockets

Ah, I have more of a surgeon's approach, liking all the necessary equipment laid out before I need to use it. Possibly mostly because I can never remember which damn pocket it's in.

James

 

[enrico]

I never use nails these days, only ever use screws

 

[JamezF]

I never use nails these days, only ever use screws

I will often use nails if I'm also gluing. The nails are mostly there to hold everything together tightly until the glue sets.

James

 

[Amari]

It's a roof! what other use does it have whilst inspecting?

If I have three supers atop a double bb on a hive stand I often need to place the roof on the ground to stand on, In order to lift off the heavy top super.

 

[Macbear]

I couldn't see the image either, and am assuming you are using wood. Butt joints aren't strong, but if one set of surfaces has a greater area than another it would be stronger. My preference would be to clamp the whole structure once freshly glued with decent exterior PVA, then drill a couple of dowels into each corner - again with glue. That effectively makes a simple mortice and tenon joint. Alternatively, pre drill holes and put in a couple of decent woodscrews in each corner whilst the whole is clamped. The point is to reduce any tendency to spring apart should the sides warp. Nails tapped in at different angles are very much second best.

 

[Pembroke]

Unless you're planning to stand on it the roof is going to be under very little stress at all, so you're probably over-thinking things. If you are worried about the strength of the joint, use some waterproof glue as well. Because it's a roof and therefore may spend long periods being wet, or at least damp, I'd be tempted to use a D4-rated foaming (to penetrate the end grain well) PU glue rather than a D3 PVA-based one.

James

You could go a bit more fancy and use a mitre joint, then there's no exposed end grain to seal.

 

[madasafish]

I don't use nails in butt joints: always screws +PU glue.