Buzz your report re Nosema.

Hi Buzz
Really bad news my friend those bees you sent me were full of Nosema spores in my opinion it is a really heavy infestation, and because of the sensitive nature of this I am not going to reccommend what your follow up action should be. Sorry mate.
I made up three slides to show different area's of samples taken from the whole mashed up sample.

Heres what I found;

Those results do look very high Bcrazy.

I tested a hive for a member last year who had lost the colony and the amount was only around half the number of Nosema spores those slides show.

admin said:

Those results do look very high Bcrazy.

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Yes it looks like a very heavy infestation, but how many bees and how much water??
The usual standard now is 1ml water per bee.
Ruary

Wow! Compared to the last slides I saw that you posted, that looks terrible. Poor bees, that is actually quite upsetting.

I did not count the number of bees as I recieved the small box of then and just took out a small pile and added some water. I test to see if there is or is not Nosema present and if there is then I would reccomend treatment but with an ifection like this there is only one treatment. Sorry about that. Any one can deduce that the infection is of a high proportion with the number of spores showing.


Mo

Bcrazy said:

I did not count the number of bees as I recieved the small box of then and just took out a small pile and added some water. I test to see if there is or is not Nosema present and if there is then I would reccomend treatment but with an ifection like this there is only one treatment. Sorry about that. Any one can deduce that the infection is of a high proportion with the number of spores showing.


Mo

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Yes we had a hive like that, we kept some of the dead bees which had dried out for several years and used single bees at microscopy workshops to demonstrate the detection of nosema spores.
Some of the dead bees made their way to USA where a researcher wanted some nosema apis, this was about 8 years after the bees were sampled and they were the last of the sample.
Ruary

Bcrazy said:

I did not count the number of bees as I recieved the small box of then and just took out a small pile and added some water. I test to see if there is or is not Nosema present and if there is then I would reccomend treatment but with an ifection like this there is only one treatment. Sorry about that. Any one can deduce that the infection is of a high proportion with the number of spores showing.


Mo

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And that treatment is to feed thymolated 1:1 syrup.

Don't give up just yet.

Or spray the bees with 'fumidilised' sugar syrup (per hivemaker, if I recall correctly) at the earliest opportunity and then repeat. As WPC says, don't give up on them unless there are simple alternatives to replace them.

RAB

Gentlemen,
I do applude your thoughts about trying to save the bess but in all honesty the infection is well past treatment ,in my humble opinion.
If these were mine the whole colony would have been delt with using Ethyl Acetate or Chloroform anf the hive fired out. But each to there own.

Mo

How strong is the colony,and is the Queen laying, that is the deciding factor with regards treating them,if still reasonably strong, then they can easily be saved.

With regards to dilution when nosema testing...well if your just testing to see if the sample of bee's has nosema or not,then it makes no differnce what dilution is used,but if testing for a heavy or light spore count,then it is important....5ml of water and a sample of 30 nosemic bee's is going to look like a much higher spore count under the microscope than the same sample being diluted with 30ml of water......bit like a teaspoon of coffee diluted with a cup full of water, compared to one diluted with 3 gallons of water....which would be stronger.

With all due respect, if this infestation is in the only colony this person has, then a low cost alternative to losing £150 quid surely must be an attempt at saving them. I did mention this in my post #8. If several colonies are available to split later to replace, that is one thing; starting from scratch is another.

Perhaps we might hear the outcome, or the actual situation?

RAB

Hi one and all. I wasnt expecting to find my dead out published on the forum before I had a chance to absorb the results myself, but anyway. Happy to share my experiance with you all, hope something is learnt by all.
The colony WAS a very strong colony going into the winter after coming back from the heather. Full BB of bees in Jan when doing the oxalic, no sign of any problems. Given slab of fondant as insurance at that time (still quite heavy from heather). Checked early feb, some slight signs of staining (in hindsight), no significant deaths. Went back a week or so ago and complete dead out. Bees on crown board, on frames and on floor. It was quite a shock to see such a quick loss. Interestingly I didnt feed these in the Autumn as they were heavy from the heather, so didn't get hivemakers thymol treatment.
At the moment there is one other colony showing very slight signs.
i intend to take a trip to Th***** in the morning and stock up on Fumil B.
It may appear that i took my eye off the ball with these bees. But I assure you that up to Feb, they were my strongest colony. Maybe their strength was part of the problem. I have considered where i may have been at fault:
i treated for varroa using HM receipe in late sept, perhaps too cold

Maybe the mouseguard contributed be helping to block the entrance, being a strong colony, having a greater mass of dead bees on the floor, thus blocking the entrance, blocking them in, making an already long winter, even longer, increasing the spread of the pathogen within the colony.

We are where we are. One dead colony (my strongest). I dont want to loose any more, so on with the chemicals.

Comments welcome, but dont think me a neglectful beek. Fingers crossed my 15 remaining colonys are ok.

Buzz

There have been mentions previously of a link between nosemic colony deaths and oxalic acid treatments?

RAB

Hi Buzz,
My sincerest apologies in not taking into consideration that you as the owner of these bees would like the information first hand. That is a lesson lern't by me now. It was just normal proceedure to print to the forum. I can say that I expect that a large majority of beekeepers don't know that their colonies are suffering with Nosema and will just carry on regardless and suddenly wonder why the colony is begining to dwindle.
Your points have been noted and it will not happen again, sorry Buzz.

Mo

"Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss".

Ralph Waldo Emerson

How true.

Buzz

There have been mentions previously of a link between nosemic colony deaths and oxalic acid treatments?

Usually around two weeks after treatment.

Hivemaker. said:

There have been mentions previously of a link between nosemic colony deaths and oxalic acid treatments?

Usually around two weeks after treatment.

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HM, could you point me in the direction of any info on this? cheers

Buzz

Hi Buzz
i just found out the hard way...or easy way if you like,from testing any dead outs,which died shortly after oxalic,they all had a heavy nosema load,but would of survived(in most cases) until a spring treatment could be given if they had not been treated with oxalic i'm sure. There was a research paper i found after.....more to do with ccd in USA, but the advice was not to treat colonys that had nosema with oxalic...for the same reason.