The Test Frame.... some info

Help I'm Queenless..... I think?

To be completely queenless is unlikely. There is usually a queen of some sort in the situation, whether still in a cell or running about in Virgin form, or merely hiding from you in a cranny.

So. Ask yourself why you think you are Queenless?

If the answer is I crushed her yesterday then yes you probably are Queenless, but I would still run a check in case there is an unknown supercedure on going. Or in other words there may be a 2nd mated queen in residence or a virgin.

If the answer is I can't see any eggs or open brood and or there are queen cells then yes you probably are queenless.

If the answer is the bees are tetchy and there are eggs then you are suffering from a dearth of nectar or thundery weather.

There is only one sure way to check if you are queenless and that is to offer the bees a “Test Frame”.

Normally it is a frame of eggs and open brood taken from another hive, making very very sure you do not inadvertently transfer the queen on it from the donor colony.

I have used a grafted larvae as a test and that was a success. But usually it is a frame.

If nothing happens on your test frame then you have a queen of some sort already and the only solution is to exercise patience. The books will tell you a virgin should mate with in two weeks but in reality I have found depending on weather it can take as long as a month.

If your test frame after a day shows cells with lots of Royal jelly, evidenced by a deep white, and more noticeable after three days or so. Then you have no queen of any sort and your options are open. You can of course expect to see sealed queen cells after 5 days.

You can leave the test frame to develop cells and then to allow a Virgin to mate.

You can add a queen cell from a good stock, yours or a friends.

You can buy a queen.

You can unite to another stock and use it for... insert plan zx96 here.

You can introduce a queen from your carefully nurtured mini nucs or from a Nuc.

From all of this you can see why beginners are recommended to have two colonies. If you have a suspicion you can allay it within five days.

It might be an idea to buddy up with another beginner so you both have one hive but contract with each other to supply a test frame if needed to each other. Wrapped in a damp warm towel you can transport such a frame for several hours.

I hope this short piece will save you the worried beekeeper some time and effort.

PH

Love this forum. Mainly stuff I thought I knew, but laid out clearly and still with the odd gem (warm damp towel).

There is only one sure way to check if you are queenless and that is to offer the bees a “Test Frame”.


One scenario missed out. Laying workers. If the colony has been queenless for some time, eg no capped brood, laying workers are a possibility. This is the one time when the above statement may not be true.

It does happen. Been reported on the forum on two or more occasions(?) this last year.

RAB

Well done PH bang on the money IMHO, although the test frame method is not infallible I suspect.

During my first summer (last year) after getting through two queens in one hive and then exercising patience I ended up with a drone laying worker, multiple eggs in the cells and drone brood were the clues.

I'm guessing the test frame method would give a queen-right result in this case which may mislead a novice especially if the drone brood isn't capped yet. I stand to be corrected

Damn beaten to it by RAB.

I could type quicker if my right arm wasn't in a sling at the moment.

My tag line is "Bees do nothing invariably" a line Bernard would quote with a twinkle in his eye.

Personally I have met with laying workers once in 20 years.

Of course yes a test frame will give a false result in that case, but..... I trust the good readers on here know how to identify one.

PH

Personally I have met with laying workers once in 20 years.


Usually encounter a few laying workers every season at some time or other,even queenright colonys have a proportion of laying workers. Some colonys when queenless will develope laying workers much quicker than others,and some mini nuc's which have lost there virgin queen, for one reason or another, will often turn laying worker quite quickly..

Hmm just been lucky then.

PH

PH hopefully I will be lucky too, I'll let you know in 19 years! I think the advantage you have is multiple colonies and experience.

At the time all I had was two swarms building up and I was flying by the seat of my pants during my first summer.

When I come across either a LW or a DLQ (which isn't all that often fortunately) they get emptied out in the apiary and the bees beg their way in to other hives.

Zero tolerance.

White Park Cattle said:

When I come across either a LW or a DLQ....

Zero tolerance.

Click to expand...

White Park Cattle said:

When I come across either a LW or a DLQ (which isn't all that often fortunately) they get emptied out in the apiary and the bees beg their way in to other hives.

Zero tolerance.

Click to expand...

So you shake all the bees out and take the old hive away?

Erichalfbee said:

So you shake all the bees out and take the old hive away?

Click to expand...

Yes. Empty the hive in front of your other hives.

Thats pretty much it , walk the hive as far as you can and shake em all out . If its a laying worker the theory goes that it probably hasnt flown so wont find its way back to the hive .

I have only had to do it once and put frames back in with some brood from a good hive . By the time you walk back to the hives old position there will be a number of bees waiting for you to reassemble .( Only if you want to try and keep it alive of course).

I find that taking them to a different apairy,when a good flow is going on, and just blow them out of the box with a blower,distributes them nicely.
For a DLQ, if the colony is still viable,then just re-Queen them,and add a few frames of brood.

When I did mine there weren't many bees left in there (2 failed queens previously) so I worked the hive across, using the 3ft rule, until it was between my other two hives and then a week later I took it own the garden and tipped it out.

The bees headed 'home' and attempted to enter the other hives, most made it but there were a lot of causalities. It boosted the other two newly established colonies up going into the tail end of the season.

I boosted them some more a week or so later by swapping the frames with stores from the evicted colony for foundation and part drawn frames in the two remaining colonies.

Timely bump.

PH

Poly, that was brilliant for a beginer like me.
I have printed it off for safe keeping.
You couldnt something simular regarding an AS and not wanting to increase my cololies?

Of course but the way I AS is not conventional and I dinna want to have the finger pointed more than it already is...LOL

PH

Poly Hive said:

Of course but the way I AS is not conventional and I dinna want to have the finger pointed more than it already is...LOL

PH

Click to expand...

I think the more different ideals/practises the better and would like to here how you AS as it might be a better way than I'm doing at the moment even if it,s not conventional
Different ideals and practises are a good thing which gives others a choice and hopefuly increase their knowledge and understanding