Non swarm

Was having a 'mooch' near my apiary when I became conscious of a crescendo of buzzing, with the area above the hives becoming more and more populated with flying bees. The bees were pouring out of one of my colonies - the one where I decided they were superceding when I found capped QC's and the (heavily painted) queen still in residence on 13th May. HMQ was still there on 17th as well. According to my calculations the new queen should have emerged by 20th May (but could have been anytime from 14th May in effect)
There was a general commotion for about 10mins, then they all settled on the front of the hive, then all proceeded to march back in, with lots of nasanov gland fanning, over the next 20mins.
So - was this a virgin queen wanting to swarm? If so why would they return? Might it have been a preamble for a mating flight (timings concur) but does this major commotion happen for these flights?
Really not too sure about my next course of action for this colony - any advice?

mine did this yesterday, all piled back in, 3 hours later they were off

Could be a mating flight I've seen it happen twice

I agree with JBM, the same thing happened to a pal of mine two weeks ago.

there's so much talk of supersedure, , it's the swarming season. finding capped queen cells with queen present, means they are swarming. supersedure is quite rare more than some people believe

Practice makes perfect.

Dishmop said:

Practice makes perfect.

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So you think they are practicing their swarming? Just seems so perverse in that the queen has always been there - why wait 8 plus days before taking off? Ok the weather has been a bit windy on some days, but others between 13th and now have been fine. The queen cells that I did find on 13th were all the same stage - unlike 'normal' swarm cells of different ages.

BTW I did not see the (marked) queen on the flight, or on the hive front or landing board when they were all trooping back in.

Anyhoo - I'll let things settle and have a look in a couple of days.

Perhaps they thought it was time to go but they got fed up with waiting for the queen to get ready.......

Dishmop said:

Perhaps they thought it was time to go but they got fed up with waiting for the queen to get ready.......

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It can be hell deciding what outfit to wear for such an occasion

Glenviewbee said:

So you think they are practicing their swarming? Just seems so perverse in that the queen has always been there - why wait 8 plus days before taking off? Ok the weather has been a bit windy on some days, but others between 13th and now have been fine. The queen cells that I did find on 13th were all the same stage - unlike 'normal' swarm cells of different ages.

and you thought beekeeping would be easy because......

BTW I did not see the (marked) queen on the flight, or on the hive front or landing board when they were all trooping back in.

maybe they didn't either, hence going back in ????

Anyhoo - I'll let things settle and have a look in a couple of days

fingers crossed aye, best form of keeping,lol

.

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let us know

Actually NOT a question of 'fingers crossed beekeeping' - I also asked for advice from my own association and one of the more experienced keepers suggested that it would be a good idea to let things settle and then look - as he said hopefully you will see eggs at least.

From my original question on here responders came back to basically say, 'yes my lot then swarmed (DS)' or 'yes they were out on mating flights (P)' and then that maybe they were practicing swarming.

So, 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other - and as for the really encouraging dismissive 'aye that's the way to do it' - well I hope your day picks up cos it must have been sh1t so far.

I have seen exactly the same behaviours yesterday and today. Around 5pm yesterday afternoon the air was thick with bees, and they seemed to disappear into the woods. This morning at 10am, it happened all over again. I'm still waiting to work out what they were - mating flights (I haven't seen them return yet) or a swarm. Elements of the colony concerned were particularly swarmy last year.

I await your observations (And my own!) with baited breath

Glenviewbee said:

... According to my calculations the new queen should have emerged by 20th May (but could have been anytime from 14th May in effect)
...

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Mating flight. They may repeat the performance two or three times, given nice weather.
Notably the bees return and beard on the front of the hive, Nasonov fanning to guide Q back. When she returns, they troop back inside ...

Watch the entrance for the next few days and expect to see a step-change increase in incoming pollen.
Expect to see some open brood when you inspect next weekend.

Otherwise no need whatsoever for action.



Whereas, small swarms starting very close to predicted Q emergence that "disappear", indicates "casting" and a failure to control the number of residual QCs after losing a prime swarm or performing an artificial swarm. Repeat performances lead to a catastrophic loss of "bee-power".
Action is called for to stop casts. Begin with (re?)reading the Welsh QCs booklet.

itma said:

Mating flight. They may repeat the performance two or three times, given nice weather.
Notably the bees return and beard on the front of the hive, Nasonov fanning to guide Q back. When she returns, they troop back inside ...

Watch the entrance for the next few days and expect to see a step-change increase in incoming pollen.
Expect to see some open brood when you inspect next weekend.

Otherwise no need whatsoever for action.



Whereas, small swarms starting very close to predicted Q emergence that "disappear", indicates "casting" and a failure to control the number of residual QCs after losing a prime swarm or performing an artificial swarm. Repeat performances lead to a catastrophic loss of "bee-power".
Action is called for to stop casts. Begin with (re?)reading the Welsh QCs booklet.

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Thanks Itma - I downloaded the Welsh QC's booklet a while ago and often read it as it does help to calm the nerves (somewhat!) but this spectacle definitely had me confused.