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DIY Hive construction and plans and tools. How to count up to 9 the easy way.

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Old 27th November 2013, 10:28 PM   #1
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Default Rose Hive plans

I have been contacted by a dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.

Are there any plans available for the Rose hive ?
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Old 27th November 2013, 10:54 PM   #2
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190mm deep National size 46cmx46cm box but with 12mm sides so you can easily get 12 hoffmans in

Thornes do a version but that has large chunky molded frame ledge sides of pine thick planks plus thin12mm ply sides,
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Old 28th November 2013, 08:45 AM   #3
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http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/sho...php?t=778&oo=0
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Not much help though
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Old 28th November 2013, 10:15 AM   #4
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Swienty's national hive comes flat packed and is easy to cut down to 190mm, http://www.swienty.com/shop/vare.asp...&vareid=100054, only 10 frames to a box but warmer and lighter.

Mike.

PS I think his plans are in his book.
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Old 28th November 2013, 10:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
I have been contacted by a dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.

Are there any plans available for the Rose hive ?
Hi Admin
Dave Cushman's site talks about rose hives. From what he says use national brood box plans with 190 mm deep boxes. He says all National and Commercial parts fit. Not sure about frames though!!!
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Old 28th November 2013, 10:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Brian Bush View Post
... Not sure about frames though!!!
Beat me to it - the hive itself is only half the story!

No reason why the method shouldn't be applied with a conveniently available, similar-sized box (and frames) Dadant super, perhaps?
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Old 28th November 2013, 11:02 AM   #7
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The picture show the standard Rowe OSB plank end (retreived from a pile to be burnt), This is the patent end designed by Mr Rowe and sold by £hornes

I have noticed that the problem with assembling of the Rowe patent OSB is shrinkage of the Plank end

I also add a picture of one the difference between one plank side stored inside dry (ready to burn) and one store outside in the rain

But as ITMA says it is a "way of Beekeeping" and really which box you use is irrelevant

The OSB Rose plank end box experiment I was helping with has been ababonded ( we burnt a lots of the frames yesterday. We discuss the possiblity of making 190mm deep National the same size a OSB but it was expensive and Yorkshire Beehives who said they could make them closed ( The beekeeper is now standardising on Commercials including a commercial WBC in his garden),
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Old 28th November 2013, 09:01 PM   #8
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Full plans on pdf
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Old 29th November 2013, 07:17 PM   #9
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I have been contacted by a Dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.
If I understand correctly, the key issue with the Rose hive is not the hive design per se but the beekeeping system that you use. One could really do the Rose hive system with any hive's bodies. Still, it may be an idea to maintain roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive does.

As far as I can tell, these foundation sizes should be accurate:

Rose:
335 mm x 160 mm = 0.107 m2 per frame
12 frames = 1.29 m2 per box

Dutch Simplex (honey frame):
350 mm x 140 mm = 0.098 m2 per frame
10 frames = 0.98 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper should try to use the Rose method using Dutch simplex honey boxes, it would be like using Rose hives with 9 frames instead of 12. In my opinion this would be the best option, even though the box is almost a quarter of the size smaller.

Dutch Simplex (brood frame):
350 mm x 220 mm = 0.154 m2 per frame
10 frames = 1.54 m2 per box
9 frames = 1.37 m2 per box
8 frames = 1.23 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper wants to use a box that has roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive, then he could use Dutch simplex brood boxes and simply use 8 frames instead of 10. However, this will mean that the boxes are "taller" and "narrower" than the Rose system, and I'm not sure how that would affect the Rose system's intended regular and rapid expansion of the brood nest.

The reason why the Dutch simplex has so much less foundation for roughly the same box dimensions is because the frames have longer ears (4 cm on either side).

Samuel
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Old 29th November 2013, 10:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugcheleuce View Post
If I understand correctly, the key issue with the Rose hive is not the hive design per se but the beekeeping system that you use. One could really do the Rose hive system with any hive's bodies. Still, it may be an idea to maintain roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive does.

As far as I can tell, these foundation sizes should be accurate:

Rose:
335 mm x 160 mm = 0.107 m2 per frame
12 frames = 1.29 m2 per box

Dutch Simplex (honey frame):
350 mm x 140 mm = 0.098 m2 per frame
10 frames = 0.98 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper should try to use the Rose method using Dutch simplex honey boxes, it would be like using Rose hives with 9 frames instead of 12. In my opinion this would be the best option, even though the box is almost a quarter of the size smaller.

Dutch Simplex (brood frame):
350 mm x 220 mm = 0.154 m2 per frame
10 frames = 1.54 m2 per box
9 frames = 1.37 m2 per box
8 frames = 1.23 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper wants to use a box that has roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive, then he could use Dutch simplex brood boxes and simply use 8 frames instead of 10. However, this will mean that the boxes are "taller" and "narrower" than the Rose system, and I'm not sure how that would affect the Rose system's intended regular and rapid expansion of the brood nest.

The reason why the Dutch simplex has so much less foundation for roughly the same box dimensions is because the frames have longer ears (4 cm on either side).

Samuel
The Dutch simplex boxes are the same volume and use the same size frame as the British standard Nationals (long lug frams we call them rather than long ears, Brtish Slang for Ears is lug hole) However whereas the British Nationals and Rose boxes are bottom bee space, the Dutch Simplex boxes are top Bee Space

As the Rose system does not use a Queen Excluder, I doubt it would matter the height of each individual box or it volume as the queen occupies were she wishes in the stack of boxes , the advantage of the Rose is the stanardisation of frame size through the hive stack and boxes of managable weight when full of Honey (15-18kg)

The OSB Rose, Simplex and National are all 46cm square external if you go simplex chose either a brood or honey super and standardise on that throughtout the hive stack and run it with max number of frames per box, A hive of 6 x rose oSB would have almost the same internal volume as a hive of 5x Simplex/National Brood boxes or 8 x Honey supers if you take into account the unusalable between box bee space, to get it more exact as the rose can take 12 frames due to 12mm sides you could run at 33mm Hoffman spacing rather than 35mm for shaving 2mm off the hoffman frames but is that worth it as you can use dummy boards?

some of the beekeepers on here and American beekepers use one size boxes , normally brood boxes , it just the weight that is the problem when full of honey

WE found we could not extract rose frames (190mm) in a 9 frame radial extractor and had to purchase tangential screens for the extractor, they take Brood frames ,Rose and Commercial
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