Nosema

I look After a couple of hives for a community farm producing local organic food and despite a good start to the spring the bees have done not so great in the past few weeks so I have tested for Nosema and wow.

Its not good me thinks they must have picked it up in the early spring as they came out of the winter in good shape and one was the strongest hive in the apiary at one time.

I think one possible cause of infection, my hive that went Q- and had signs of nosema was dealt with by tipping the remaining bees on the floor to blag themselves into other hives!!!! In hind sight perhaps not a good move.

I have started treating by spraying the bees on the combs with the thymol syrup diluted to approx 1:1 I will do this every week and re test every two weeks to see if it improves. I have also removed the supers as no increase in nectar for a couple of weeks and they have plenty of room if things turn around for them.

One good thing is I have time and options and I was planning on re queening them this year with a queen already settled into a nuc and depending on how they respond to the thymol I will still do this to one of the hives as this hive also has chalk brood. They are also not that small just yet and both are approx 8-9 frames of bees and 5 frames of brood, one box is a 14x12 and the other standard national the queens are laying ok and with this and the internet I think its Apis.

Talking to the royal veterinary College entomologist about his paper on Apis Ceranaea at the RVC open farm Day on Sunday ( Friends manage bees on the RVC site) his view was Vita feed gold was best but fumidil B was much better (vet prescribe under VMD rules from USA etc)

He disliked Thymol/Manley syrup saying he found no effect on Nosema Ceranea

He also said once established N. ceranea in a hive will force out Nosema Apis .

His view was also the Nosema.ceranae does not kill bees but that the effect of Nosema Ceranea was to starve the bees, so they take higher risks gather pollen, eventual dying away from the hive

Caged infected bees fed pollen live as long as uninfected bees, so he suggests feeding pollen ( so now how do we do that!!!)

His pasing shot was dont worry, Noseama Ceranea is stress related and low infection also reduces DWV

Someone at my association is treating his hives with vita feed after a couple of losses over winter and not great looking bees this spring. I don’t think he has tested his bees but is treating all the same.

I told him about the thymolated syrup and showed him a sample he later said the vita feed smells the same and from what he can make out is its basically thymol but it will be interesting to see how he gets on but I will stick with the homemade thymol mix.

As its the older bees that get the full blown nosema they die away from the hive and the hive suffers with a reduction of pollen and nectar, I can see this starting in the two hives, they still have a reasonable amount of nurse bees and brood but a lack of foraging bees and nectar and honey has reduced. I will check on pollen on my next visit so starvation could play a part.

I always thought that Nosema was stress related and the more stressed the greater effect it has on the bees but then having Nosema would stress the bees.

I will update the photos when I re test in two weeks.

MuswellMetro said:

... his view was Vita feed gold was best but fumidil B was much better (vet prescribe under VMD rules from USA etc)

He disliked Thymol/Manley syrup saying he found no effect on Nosema Ceranea
...
His view was also the Nosema.ceranae does not kill bees but that the effect of Nosema Ceranea was to starve the bees, so they take higher risks gather pollen, eventual dying away from the hive

Caged infected bees fed pollen live as long as uninfected bees, so he suggests feeding pollen ( so now how do we do that!!!)
...

Click to expand...

But isn't Vitafeed Gold largely Thymol?



I had been taught that Nosema in the gut wall reduced protein digestive capability, leading to reduced output of brood food, in turn reducing the amount of brood that can be supported, weakening the foraging numbers and the downward spiral is well underway.
Potentially protein-rich feeding (wouldn't have to be pollen) might be helpful. So, get out those pattie recipes!

itma said:

Potentially protein-rich feeding (wouldn't have to be pollen) might be helpful. So, get out those pattie recipes!

Click to expand...

Heavily nosema infected bees will not eat pattie, nor take syrup in most cases.

itma said:

But isn't Vitafeed Gold largely Thymol?



I had been taught that Nosema in the gut wall reduced protein digestive capability, leading to reduced output of brood food, in turn reducing the amount of brood that can be supported, weakening the foraging numbers and the downward spiral is well underway.
Potentially protein-rich feeding (wouldn't have to be pollen) might be helpful. So, get out those pattie recipes!

Click to expand...

agree, thats what i thought, but he said vitafeed gold was not thymol...i fed pollen patties with nosevit to my bees treated with fumidil B for nosema last year...all are strong...too strong as all are swarming

Nosema in the gut of a bee invades the gut wall where the spores breed and cause the gut wall to be compromised and severely reduces the bees ability to gain nutirients through the gut wall.

Fumidil B is a prophylactic which largely prevents the Nosema from multiplying in the gut.
Thymol is an antibacterial, anti fungal agent which kills the spores before they get into the bees gut.

Putting a new meaning perhaps on the saying, "A penny worth of prevention is worth a pound of cure (prophylactic)".

I'm not as certain about Nosema Cerana of course.

MuswellMetro said:

Talking to the royal veterinary College entomologist about his paper on Apis Ceranaea at the RVC open farm Day on Sunday ( Friends manage bees on the RVC site) his view was Vita feed gold was best but fumidil B was much better (vet prescribe under VMD rules from USA etc)

He disliked Thymol/Manley syrup saying he found no effect on Nosema Ceranea

His pasing shot was dont worry, Noseama Ceranea is stress related and low infection also reduces DWV

Click to expand...

Fumidil B probably not much help on an organic farm, even if you can still find it.

The thymol recipe used on here is, if I remember rightly, about 5 x manley. 1 x manley was only ever intended to stop the syrup going off.

.

Its a small organic farm skyhook and hardly a farm but a shining example as to what can be achieved in a small urban space providing local organic food and habitat for local wildlife.

Personally its one of the best things I have been a part of and when possible do as many volunteer days as I can other than the bees.

The bees are on the farm but although they are managed by myself with my adopted type of beekeeping they cannot be classed as organic. I am happy to go with the thymol treatment over any other that may be available as it comes highly recommended by Hivemaker. I was never happy about Fumidil B seen too many people treat hives just as a precaution and for that stuff it was wrong.

The thymol mix recommended to treat the bees is 5ml of the pre mix to 1L of 1:1 syrup lightly sprayed over the bees and combs every 4 days with three applications.

Time will see if the hives can be saved and it will be interesting all the same.

I have tested and found all colonies with slow build up have Nosema. I am treating with 5ml of the Hivemaker thymol mix per litre of 1:1 syrup too - sprayed onto the bees. I think it is helping as they are building up a bit now. My buddy was using Vitagold and it had less effect.

I also find the ones with bad Nosema will not take syrup or pattie, but find they will take fondant. Can't think why.

Thanks for that polyanwood Pete mentioned that if the bees react to the spray a couple of drops of lemon grass oil in the mix could reduce the reaction.

As I initially sprayed them with the mix for syrup before Pete was kind enough to let me know it should be stronger, I have given them a couple of days before I spray with the more concentrated mix.

I will be looking forward to retesting them to see the results in a few weeks time but I expect it to be positive. I also know someone who is treating with Vitagold and will know how he gets on in time but I do know one thing he is lighter in the pocket.

Please keep us posted- also anyone who has used this treatment, it would be good to know your results.

I have a small slowly building colony that I had to rescue into a nuc box after the winter. I have some Hive Alive so I'll test and try that.
Has anybody used Randy Oliver's quick squash method? Is it as reliable? It seems much easier

What is this Randy Oliver quick squash method?

With the spraying, it looks a bit alarming as some bees fall in clumps off the frame, and other sticky bees settle on the grass or hive stand but within 20 minutes all is calm and again. I will try the lemon grass oil. Thanks Tom.

I don’t know how much you are spraying but I was told only a light spray just to wet the wings and enough so they have to groom themselves.

Interesting. He doesn't say how to treat though does he?

Erichalfbee said:

I have a small slowly building colony that I had to rescue into a nuc box after the winter. I have some Hive Alive so I'll test and try that.
Has anybody used Randy Oliver's quick squash method? Is it as reliable? It seems much easier

Click to expand...

Someone has explained it to me but I was not fully concentrating at the time but thanks for the link.

MuswellMetro said:

...
His pasing shot was dont worry, Noseama Ceranea is stress related and low infection also reduces DWV

Click to expand...

what sort of stress are we talking here?

Tom Bick said:

As I initially sprayed them with the mix for syrup before Pete was kind enough to let me know it should be stronger, I have given them a couple of days before I spray with the more concentrated mix.

Click to expand...

Thymolated syrup - do you mean you will be using 2:1 + hivemaker's thymol recipe? Is it the recipe from this thread? http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1840 or is it a different one?