P**nes Poly Hives

Please folks this intended to be a CONSTRUCTIVE thread.

I'm sure that P's read posts on here, so let's give them feedback (constructive) to help them next time they have the pennies for a rejig.

My gripes are:
The QX unframed with bottom beespace is a waste of time. I've framed all of mine (3).
The coverboard is similar and if you use a standard coverboard the roof doesn't fit.

The roof needs to be thicker and deeper to allow for us who use a standard board.

Why are there lugs to locate the BB to the floor, it stops us putting a P's super on the bottom.

PLEASE folks let's be constructive, it's a good hive but could be improved.

I took 2 colonies through the winter, both small after late swarms, the one in the P's poly came out on 4 seams the one in cedar was one seam and and is now in a P's nuc.

Tim:

P.S. I think this is what the forum could help with, feedback from users.

I hasten to add I have NO connection to P's just a customer with a few issues.

I wish that the outer dimensions were the same as a standard national, so that QXs, crown boards and roofs fitted - even if that is at the expense of a frame inside.

I agree entirely about the brood/super/floor thing - really irritating.

agree, the clear CB is a waste of space and then if you use a std CB you can't use the roof. They went to the effort of making it possible to use wooden supers, would it have been much more to make the CB either better or similar.

I didn't bother with the QX, just use a wooden framed, but does spoil the line of the hive

Very happy that my bees are very happy in theirs. Some issues, already mentioned above but another would be the centre pillar precisely where you'd like your hands to be.

Sick of trying to get the bees off the top bars, I abandoned the sheet provided for a clear crown board. I made a frame and rounded the corners to the same dimension as the hive and recessed the inner edge to take the frame of the CB. This alllows for a 50mm insulation board on top, with the roof fitting properly. I'm sure they could come up with a similar idea for both CB and QX, maybe a plastic frame a bit like their plastic entrance block?

swarm, any chance of a PIC next time you opening a hive?

roche said:

I wish that the outer dimensions were the same as a standard national, so that QXs, crown boards and roofs fitted - even if that is at the expense of a frame inside.

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I take the opposite view - one reason for my choosing Payn.
Standard internals.
And the new standard of outside 500mm square. Beehive Supplies have also adopted 500mm square externally, so their better (and much more expensive) roof and floor could be used with Payns boxes.

It would be nice to have a rigid wire qx and a proper polycarb crownboard made with a wider frame - so they were 500 mm externally ... !

@ Roche -- if that is what you want, go to C Wynne Jones, who offer a 460 mm external, 10 frame 'national' (but no 14x12, or likely to be).


There is no problem using Payn's roof over a 460mm coverboard. Just put a brick or two on top.
Because the roof is too thin, last winter I had a super with Celotex (and roof and bricks) above the (460mm) coverboard. No problem at all, and still rather cheaper than the thicker Beehive Supplies option!

I agree the hand holds would be better in the middle I also would have preferred them not to extend to the bottom of the box. They also make painting the box a lot harder than other polys.
The plus side is they are the cheapest of the national sized polys and the bees thrive in them, I had 2 very late splits last year winter incredibly well.
I'm not a fan of the flight board as I feel its just too big.
The entrance should have been 8mm high (too small for a mouse to enter) as this would stop there been an issue with the fact there isn't a easy way to attach a mouse guard.
The roof is too tight for my liking but this also means once its on its not getting blown off. I feel it Could be thicker it's only 20mm thick in the middle I feel 30-40mm Like other poly hives would be better.
I dont use the QX but I agree that a framed one would be nice.

I'd like to know why P*aynes don't include an entrance block when you purchase a complete hive.

They do, I bought ten earlier this year and they came with everything exept the frames and you could have paid extra for those if you wanteed. The thing that has to be kept in mind is that the hive has been designed by proffesional beekeepers and they obviously have certain constraints with moulding process, the extras could no doubt be done but the price would have to rise accordingly.They also have to not be seen to copy anyone elses poly hive. I think they are excellent value for money, next winter and the woodpeckers is my only concern.

The plastic entrance block which is now supplied can be used as an entrance reducer or if rotated 90 degs. there is a series of mouseguard holes.

Last winter I used a standard guard with a wooden entrance block flush with front of the brood box, the guard can then be pinned to the BB with no gaps.

Tim

No doubt about it, the bees do very well in the p ynes poly hive.
The only losses we had this last winter were in wooden hives.
But, they are the ugliest things around !

I also don't think the current design is very user friendly or versatile.

I'll be using S ienty in future.

Personally very happy with both of mine, no losses in two years (although the same can be said of my wooden ones).

QX is cheap and I dont use it, but thats the same with every budget hive

Perspex coverboard is fine for me, just need to be careful when replacing. yes the standard wooden version doesn't fit with the roof, but I've never felt that a problem. If I ever need to have a wooden super and board on top then I just put a wooden roof on.

Like itma I like the fact that the internal dimensions are the same size rather than the external.

Generally very pleased with them. Only gripe was with the original feeders and entranses and they have addressed both. Would also like to see a shallow poly eke to add food to.

Smuffles said:

I agree the hand holds would be better in the middle I also would have preferred them not to extend to the bottom of the box. ...

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The 'scallops' in the sides extend all the way to the bottom, because having a "bottom bar" would make the mould tooling much more expensive. It would need moving parts to allow the hive to be released from the mould.

At present, the central 'ribs' on each side indicate warm/cold way (they are different widths).

I think the thing would look better (and handle more like a wooden hive) if it had completely blank ends (like a wooden hive), and a single (not double) scallop in the 'rail' sides - which would also allow people to pick up the box from the centre of the sides if they wished to. {Personally, I think its good to have one hand forward and one back - to get better control against tipping while lifting/moving.}
The blank end walls would permit 'warm way' users to use conventional mouse guards and other entrance 'furniture' like pollen traps, anti-robbing tunnels, etc ...
This modification would also 'visually unify' the nuc and hive -- because the nuc has 2 blank sides and single scallops on the 'rail' sides.
IMHO, looking like a bigger version of the nuc would be a massive aesthetic improvement!

Maybe they forgot to send the block with the order then!

Good points-
Bees do well, which is the main thing. My one poly hive came out of winter streets ahead of the other 4, as a result of which I've bought another.
I like the fact you can get the full 11 frames in a 14 x 12, which is why I went for P's
I also like the lugs, meaning the BB and floor are securely connected.

Minuses-
The unframed QE and cover sheet are rubbish. I've tried not using the cover sheet, but you crush loads of bees fitting the roof. The only current solution is a normal framed QE, which is quite awkward to keep centred when re-assembling, and a normal framed CB with an empty super on top. Framed items made to fit would be a great improvement.

Others have pointed out that the roof is thinner than the walls- from a condensation point of view that's backwards. Again, the solution at the moment is a wooden crownboard with insulation in a super, but that's getting faffy and homemade, which isn't really the point.

Mite board- the fact that it is a single sheet means that, unless you're very careful, it will scrape against the top of the slot as it is pulled out, dislodging your catch. Any lip, even 5mm, would be better than none.

I'm not worried about having a landing board at all, but if you're going to have one, half the size would be plenty, making them easier to store and move, and saving a bit of poly that could go into the roof.

One thing I don't like but I think is a downside of poly in general rather than of the panes- the thicker walls make it much harder to avoid crushing bees when reassembling. I reckon I'm a dab hand at putting a cedar back together without loss, but with poly I know there are going to be losses. I don't find that putting them cornerwise and turning works, as you are likely to dislodge either the super below or, if it is the first, your precariously positioned 460mm square QE. Top space, now that would be a step forward...


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Skyhook said:

...
One thing I don't like but I think is a downside of poly in general rather than of the panes- the thicker walls make it much harder to avoid crushing bees when reassembling. I reckon I'm a dab hand at putting a cedar back together without loss, but with poly I know there are going to be losses. I don't find that putting them cornerwise and turning works, as you are likely to dislodge either the super below or, if it is the first, your precariously positioned 460mm square QE. Top space, now that would be a step forward...

Click to expand...

No not top bee space! Please!
Stay standard!

I'd much rather get such beespace from a proper framed QX and crownboard.

Crushing bees between the walls of different boxes has nothing really to do with where the gap between frames might be.
Placing a framed QX carefully over the brood (thus getting beespace above the frames) isn't hard to do without crunching noises.
Thereafter, any horrible crunching noises may be bad, but not a disaster!
I'm playing with a wedge and a water mister for reassembly, but being new to it, I'm persevering rather than evangelising.

General hint for using 460mm items (QX, etc).
The slight circular indents in the corners of the mating face (top surface of the box), possibly from mould ejectors, seem to be centred on something very like a 460 mm square.
So, get the corners of your QX (or whatever) in the centre of those circles (just check 2 opposite corners) and its bang in the right place.

I like mine

The bees overwintered very well and early spring they were miles ahead of my other 3.
I don't use the crown board as I've replaced it with a piece of thin poly sheet cut so that it overhangs the edges by 3 or 4 cm. No crushed bees.

I agree with the idea of a framed QX to fit the width of the box.
Handholds are difficult but you get used to them.
I like the compatibility with wooden kit
I find the varroa board is too tight a fit. When you pull it out, all the stuff on the board gets scraped off. I use a thinner board knicked from an estate agent's sign.

Top bee space please !!

Hi folks, i recently bought my first poly's which are P****s 14x12 nucs. I am initially very pleased with them but had to press one into action before having time to paint the internal feeder. Should i feed only fondant in it or am i ok to feed syrup. Also is the wooden float any good or should i adopt something else to prevent drowning. Will need to feed in next couple of days so help much appreciated.
Thanks all, Nuc.

There was a recent photo of some p's poly nucs that were externally painted pink, but the feeders not painted internally. Overwinter, the mould had penetrated to the outside.

My oft-stated opinion is that the integral feeder is a liability.
It is impossible to clean it with bees in the hive.

I like the Payn's nucs, (and intend buying another shortly) but I do entirely block off the integral feeder (from the top as well as the side).
With room for 6 frames, 5 plus a conventional frame feeder is a better bet than using the built-in feeder.

No experience of the nuc, but I have the feeder on my hive unpainted on P's advice- they said theyt never paint theirs. This was when I asked how you were supposedto paint the slots. I've used it for one lot of autumn feeding and it looks fine.

With any frame feeder I have doubts about the supplied float. After cleaning out the corpses I cut some wod into about 50mm lengths, then split it down to pencil size, and throw in a handful or two of that until it looks right, and that seems to work well.

I know a lot of people prefer fondant in nucs.

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