Hive heating temperatures

Hi,

I have tried heating some of my smaller hives however i am concerned i am heating to much. i sampled one hive a few weeks ago and it was no warmer then 4 in their.

since heating it's now 19, following finamns information that i have looked at i used 7w heaters. is this to much with heating ? i know the hive temperature should be warmer for brood rearing.

all of my colonies are just around three frames and i have not checked any of them in detail other then viewing through the clear crown board. they are all in poly boxes.

any help with this would be much appreciated.

tidymeup said:

Hi,

since heating it's now 19, following finamns information that i have looked at i used 7w heaters.

all of my colonies are just around three frames and i have not checked any of them in detail other .

Click to expand...

7 W is good to heat the whole box / 10 frames.

3 frame colony needs only 3W. It gives basic heat the bees take care of rest.
The heat is not in bees control if you give them too much.

3 frame colony cannot build up in practice, but when you have bigger hives, you may give a frame of emerging bees from there. Heating keeps the brood alive that they do not catch cold.


Arrangement:

- 3 frames of bees
- the space reduced to 3 frames with dummy board
- no mesh floor open
- ventilation hole thumb size 2 x 2 cm

You may put an electrict cutter so that is gives 15 minutes current and then 15 min without. That drops heat production to 3,5 wat.

Are your hives insulated? If not, you are wasting your time (and money).

.
Plan B

You have a box where you have reduced the bee space for 3 frames with dummy board.

Then you put the heater into the empty chamber of the hive. Then 7 W is good.
- no mesh floor open
- entrance thumb size
- upper part of dummy board tight that bees heat does not escape via gaps.

madasafish said:

Are your hives insulated? If not, you are wasting your time (and money).

Click to expand...

they are all in poly boxes says he



He is not wasting time and money. He is learning.

3 frames of bees is too small in these weathers. Colonies will dwindle quite soon away if he does not do something wise.

I have saved small colonies with electrict. Their life is not so hard when they get help from extra heat.

But those colonies need brood from bigger colonies, and as it seems, it may be that there are no brood in colonies. It takes a month that hive start to produce new bees - if weathers become tomorrow better.

Protein patty feeding makes brood. That I know, but feeding that small colonies they become propably sick-



I have only 10 years experience with these things in cold conditions just like you have now in UK.

.

.

tidymeup said:

Hi,

I have tried heating some of my smaller hives however i am concerned i am heating to much. i sampled one hive a few weeks ago and it was no warmer then 4 in their.

since heating it's now 19, following finamns information that i have looked at i used 7w heaters. is this to much with heating ? i know the hive temperature should be warmer for brood rearing.

all of my colonies are just around three frames and i have not checked any of them in detail other then viewing through the clear crown board. they are all in poly boxes.

any help with this would be much appreciated.

Click to expand...

Tricky one.

What you are doing should make brooding easier.
I believe that Finman has a very short flying season, so his concern is to get the fastest increase in the bee population and not miss the start of his short season.
In the UK, getting a good start is mainly important in getting a good honey crop from OSR. Is that your concern?

Above 10C the bees will be more active and so using much more fuel. So I hope there is plenty stored food in there. And brood rearing will require even more fuel - plus protein (pollen or substitute) for building the new bees. Without the protein availability, you won't get brood - regardless of the temperature.

According to Seeley, the bees minimum rate of food consumption is at around 10C. Above that it increases very quickly (as the bees become more active).
Below that, it only increases slowly, as the bees cluster tighter to minimise the additional heat loss to the cooler environment.
Hence, for minimising stores usage, err below 10 rather than above.

19 seems a bit high, unless you are trying to push brooding (and have plenty stores and pollen in the hive).


As per madasafish, if they are Pains polys, you can usefully use a super with Kingspan (or equivalent) above the crown/cover board - because the roof is actually thinner than the walls... doh!

Hi,

Yes all insulated boxes with a eke containing fondant. also in their is the heating element above a thin perspex sheet.

the element is situated on the opposite side to the cluster.

i will also be feeding a pollen patty within the next week as i am waiting for ingredients.

basically they are all to small and the weather to bad to do much about it. i feel as if i do nothing about it i will simply loose every colony. something i really am not prepared to let happen.

hopefully judging by finmans comments so far i might well be on the right lines.

each 7w element is only rated at 0.05 of an amp so hardly any serious electric usage.

like i said just concerned about temperature don't want to do the opposite and cook them.

they are in modern beekeeping hives.

tidymeup said:

Hi,
like i said just concerned about temperature don't want to do the opposite and cook them.

Click to expand...

I have had 7W heater in a small 4 frames chamber and it is too hot. Bees cannot use the comb next to heater.

.

Finman said:

I have had 7W heater in a small 4 frames chamber and it is too hot. Bees cannot use the comb next to heater.

.

Click to expand...

Do you have a target temperature for the hive interior?

itma said:

Do you have a target temperature for the hive interior?

Click to expand...

No. Bees take care of it. I only add heat and I do not heat it to some degree.

It is easy to look, how colony acts with certain heat source.

In winter bees must stay in cluster.

In spring the heating is on floor.

.

this morning i have had a quick peek through the clear cover and the bees are active. they seem to be comfortable and are busy feeding on the fondant. usually they would be tightly clustered.

although i was wondering about what finman said and heating from below would this help them further control the temperatures? this would be as simple as placing the mat through the entrance.

.
I have solid floors and I keep heaters on floor.
Some radiators are hanging like frames.

Cluster or spreaded?

wind affect really much on interrior temps.

When the hive has brood, bees make a cluster around brood.

tidymeup said:

Hi,

each 7w element is only rated at 0.05 of an amp so hardly any serious electric usage.

Click to expand...

Watts/Current = Volts

7W / 0.05A = 140v

Got a decimal point wrong there or are you really using 140v heaters?

Also quoting a wattage for a heater to achieve a set hive internal temperature is meaningless unless the heat loss / outside temperature is a known constant

As M100 says:
140V x 0.05A = 7W

230V x 0.03A = 7W (that's 30mA)

m100 said:

Watts/Current = Volts

7W / 0.05A = 140v

Got a decimal point wrong there or are you really using 140v heaters?

Click to expand...

Do you need to include Power Factor into your calc for AC?

itma said:

... According to Seeley, the bees minimum rate of food consumption is at around 10C. Above that it increases very quickly (as the bees become more active). ...

Click to expand...

Itma, are you referring to 'Honeybee Democracy'? If so, and if you have the book to hand, could you please give me the page reference?
Kitta

Do you need to include Power Factor into your calc for AC?

Power factors are required for inductive loads, not resistive.

Voltage indicated is the root mean square value, if that is what you are muddled with. So, too, will be the current. However it will neither lead or lag the voltage.

Madge said:

Itma, are you referring to 'Honeybee Democracy'? If so, and if you have the book to hand, could you please give me the page reference?
Kitta

Click to expand...

No, its not in his books.
From other research, which I encountered indirectly.
See http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=279528#post279528 ADDED - and the discussion following it
The document linked (with the ruddy graph) is no longer on line. And though I was sure I had a copy, it seems I don't. Sorry.

.
Houlimouli this discussion = SOS



.

Can you tell me what type of heater you are all referring too?

Thanks