Poly vs wood?

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ultreen1

House Bee
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
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Location
Pontnewynydd
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National
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8
I need a second hive! The one hive I have is wooden but I'm torn between wood or poly. Does anyone have any advice, pros or cons?
 
One's a hive, the other's a fishbox :biggrinjester:?

Poly uses petrochemicals in a big way and more energy to recycle (which ain't easy). Not as easy to clean nor as strong as wood. Aesthetically questionable. Useful for mating nucs because not enough bees to keep warm if the weather turns but a lot less material and not out all year so last better.

Lightweight is the only plus I can come up with. Wood smells nice, is strong, replenishable (unlike petrochemicals) and easily reused or burnt for fuel at end of life.
 
The biggest down-side is, for the inexperienced, to be able to make a rational decision as to what to buy. All are not compatible with all. Some have minor compatibility issues, some more than minor.

Poly is the preferred material of many of the commercial operators, or would be if there were no constraints, preventing a simple change-over.
 
Yes plenty but first ask yourself are you in any way environmentally friendly in this big bad at times world and when possible try to do the best you can do to help the planet?

Also ask yourself why you first started beekeeping.

When you have answered these two questions to yourself I think you will then be able to decide on your next choice of hive after the replies on this thread.

Good luck
 
Good point Tom! And I agree with sus, wood does look better in the garden.
 
From my recent blog post on herefordshirehoney.

After a lot of deliberation of what hive to go for I finally decided that I’m going for Langstroth. After weighing up everything I also decided to go for polystyrene 100g/litre beehives - i chose swienty in the end (available from p****es or special order c w**).


The main reasons for this route are:

  • Lightweight
  • Well insulated against frost and heat
  • Does not rot
  • Does not absorb moisture
  • European countries have been using them for a long time with great results, some even say you get a little bit more honey but that’s going to be hard to gauge for me as im going straight into them instead of woodern
  • No need for mouse trap as entrance is 1 bee space high
  • Compatibility with woodern parts, this was key for me as outlined an article regarding poly hive’s by Pete in a recent bee craft
I've cutout the bits that wasnt realivant to poly :). With regards eco route - swienty claim they are eco friendly and can be burnt in the same fashion. So its not a true cut. I may be new but the other reason i chose them is surely its better for the bee's with the climate in the uk :)
 
For sure the poly hives will burn, but products of combustion will be different and poly is not a renewable source.
Just so you know i am not against poly hives but currently have only wooden hives, which seem fine.
 
Expanded polystyrene (or polystyrene in any other form, for that matter) is 100% recyclable. The fact that it does not happen at the present time is lamentable. Obviously still cheaper to land fill or burn, than transport to be recycled.

I would think that in years to come this higher density material will be emminently suitable for recycling. The question is: Will the good quality ones ever actually wear out?

If/when irradiation becomes a feasible alternative for sterilisation, the likes of Paradise Honey units (can be returned to flat pack dimensions for more effective transport and irradiation costs, if not glued) will, I believe, be the ideal choice for the commercial operations, for even more reasons than poly is now.

It would be enlightening to know if any commercial operators are even considering the 'one piece' hive options availableat the present time. I doubt they are, for one reason or another.

RAB
 
I need a second hive! The one hive I have is wooden but I'm torn between wood or poly. Does anyone have any advice, pros or cons?

To celebrate my 200th post:

Many people are not aware of the harmful effects of Polystyrene, (including myself until very recently). This article aims to highlight some of the dangers, both to our health and to the environment.

Polystyrene is one of those materials that’s everywhere around us. Polystyrene is an inexpensive and hard plastic and probably only polyethylene is more common in your everyday life.
Did you know that the outside housing of your computer is probably made of polystyrene, as well as the housings of things like hairdryers, TVs and kitchen appliances? Model cars and airplanes are made from polystyrene, as well as many other toys. There’s also foam packaging and insulation, and a lot of the moulded parts on the inside of your car, like the radio knobs.
Polystyrene is also used to make drinking cups and food containers – the hard plastic ones and also the soft foamy ones. A popular brand of polystyrene foam is called Styrofoam™. Beehives are increasingly manufactured from “poly”.

It takes at least 500 years to decompose.

When polystyrene is sent to the landfill, it is quickly covered and this process deprives it of water and oxygen, which would normally help it to break down.
Much of the disposable packaging that we eat from today will therefore still be around in 500 years.
By volume, the amount of space used up in landfills by all plastics is between 25 and 30 percent [1]. This could be a lot higher in an island like Britain.
What happens when we add hot food or drinks to Polystyrene?
Polystyrene contains the toxic substances Styrene and Benzene, suspected carcinogens and neurotoxins that are hazardous to humans. Hot foods and liquids actually start a partial breakdown of the Styrofoam, causing some toxins to be absorbed into our bloodstream and tissue.
Polystyrene food containers leach the toxin Styrene when they come into contact with warm food or drink, alcohol, oils and acidic foods causing human contamination and pose a health risk to people. Avoid drinking tea with lemon, coffee with dairy cream, fruit juices, alcoholic beverages and wine from Styrofoam cups. Red wine will instantly dissolve the Styrene monomer. Do not eat oily foods from Styrofoam containers.

Most interesting is the degradation of food that contains vitamin A (beta-carotene). In packaged foods with the addition of heat (such as microwave temperatures), vitamin A will decompose and produce m-xylene, toluene, and 2,6-dimethylnaphthalene. Toluene will aggressively dissolve polystyrene. This renders polystyrene as an unsuitable package for containing or micro waving products that contain vitamin A.
Do not microwave food in Polystyrene containers
The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is quite direct about micro waving in plastics: “Remove food from plastic wrap, freezer cartons, and/or Styrofoam trays before defrosting and cooking. They are not heat stable and could leak hazardous compounds from the container or plastic wrap to the food.” Food Inspection Agency website.

Over 100 US and Canadian, as well as some European and Asian cities, have banned polystyrene food packaging as a result of the negative impacts to humans and the environment.
If containers you use for the storage of food are not labeled “Microwave-safe”, then they are probably not.
Effect on Global Warming:
A 1986 EPA report on solid waste named the polystyrene manufacturing process as the fifth largest creator of hazardous waste in the United States. In the product manufacturing process as well as the use and disposal of the products, energy consumption, greenhouse gas effect, and total environmental effect, polystyrene’s environmental impacts were second highest, behind aluminium, according to the California Integrated Waste Management Board.
Polystyrene products are made with petroleum, a non-sustainable and heavily polluting resource.
Extruded polystyrene is usually made with hydro chlorofluorocarbons blowing agents which have effects on ozone depletion and on global warming. Their ozone depletion potential is greatly reduced relative to chlorofluorocarbons which were formerly used, but it still has 1000 times greater effect on global warming than carbon dioxide.
Do not burn polystyrene with your garden rubbish
Burning polystyrene on bonfires releases Carbon Monoxide and styrene monomers into the environment, which can be extremely hazardous to our health.
Marine Pollution:
The United Nations Environment Program estimated in 2006 that every square mile of ocean hosts 46,000 pieces of floating plastic.
Polystyrene foam presents unique management issues because of its lightweight nature, floatability, and likelihood to be blown from disposal sites even when disposed of properly. The lightweight and buoyant polystyrene travels easily through gutters and storm drains, eventually reaching the ocean. Plastic from urban runoff is the largest source of marine debris worldwide. Pollution of waterways and waterfront negatively affects tourism and quality of life. When polystyrene travels down waterways and storm drains into the ocean, it breaks down into smaller, non- biodegradable pieces that are ingested by marine life and other wildlife thus harming or killing them. In one Californian study, at least 162 marine species including most seabirds were reported to have eaten plastics and other marine litter.
As a result of the impacts on marine pollution and adverse effect to marine wildlife, several coastal cities across the United States, have banned the use of polystyrene food packaging altogether.

Public Contamination
Because polystyrene products are so common, many people assume they are safe, and that a government agency, such as the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), would not allow a health- threatening product to be marketed to the public. Some would pretend that those coutries that have adopted Polystyrene for bee keeping are ‘enlightened’, they are not they are being shallow, short -sighted and thoughtless to future generations. The EPA National Human Adipose Tissue Survey for 1986 identified styrene residues in 100% of all samples of human fat tissue taken in 1982 in the US. Styrene is used to make polystyrene plastic and is a contaminant in all polystyrene foam packages. But the migration of styrene is nothing new. It was first documented in 1972 and then again in 1976.
A 1988 survey, published by the Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education also found styrene in human fatty tissue with a frequency of 100% at levels from 8 to 350 nanograms/gram (ng/g). The 350 ng/g level is one third of levels known to cause neurotoxic symptoms. It determined that Styrofoam drinking cups leach Styrofoam into the liquids they contain. The cups apparently lose weight during the time they are at use.
Health Effects
The fact that styrene can adversely affect humans in a number of ways raises serious public health and safety questions regarding its build-up in human tissue. Although there is evidence that styrene causes cancer in animals, it has not yet been proven to cause cancer in humans. Styrene primarily exhibits its toxicity to humans as a neurotoxin by attacking the central and peripheral nervous systems. The accumulation of these highly lipid-soluble (fat-soluble) materials in the lipid-rich tissues of the brain, spinal cord, and peripheral nerves is correlated with acute or chronic functional impairment of the nervous system.
Can polystyrene be recycled?
Whilst the technology does exist in some countries to recycle polystyrene, the market for recycling it is small and shrinking. Polystyrene can be made into items such as packing fillers and cafeteria trays, but not into cups or food containers. Containers that have previously been used for food storage create a massive food hygiene issue for recyclers. For this reason, and due to the shrinking market for the recycled products, many recyclers do not accept polystyrene.
What can we do?
1. Be aware of the harmful effects of using polystyrene products and tell others.
2. Use reusable cups at work instead of foam cups.
3. When shopping for groceries, select items that are unwrapped, or wrapped in non-polystyrene materials: (e.g. vegetables, eggs, meat)
4. Ask local takeaway restaurants and food suppliers to use a more environmentally friendly form of food packaging other than Styrofoam. Many alternatives are now available made from materials such as post-consumer recycled paper and corn-plastics.
5. Don’t buy Polystyrene beehives just because people say they are warmer lighter or cheaper, wood is a natural product which is perfectly suited to housing bees.
Ask your Member of Parliament and The Minister of Environment to ban polystyrene in food packaging and beehives. There are many alternatives that will have less impact on the environment.
Greenpeace, friends of the earth, the soil association and many others have supported a move away from Poly, join them.
 
Expanded polystyrene (or polystyrene in any other form, for that matter) is 100% recyclable. The fact that it does not happen at the present time is lamentable.

It is recycled in some areas. Our local community recycling will take white expanded polystyrene providing you deliver it to their yard at the right time.
 
Bob Bee,

Of course 'one use' items should be controlled far better than at present. Packaging and food contaners are obvious items for attention.

But think just a bit. Items which last well over thirty years of contunual use are in a different category entirely. They will (eventually) be recycled at the end of their life, you can be fairly sure of that, in the future, as it will be an economically sensible option.

I am sure that the 'expanding gases' used these days are far less damaging to the atmosphere than the ones used back when.

Think progress. Yes, perhaps ban polystyrene cups - but there needs to be an alternative. At present the alternatives are more expensive. If that issue is addressed, alternatives will be available, and used, in a short time period.

Will the world follow? Ask the Chinese and third-world developing nations if they will stop using the cheapest product available rather than the more expensive (but less polluting) alternatives.

Any one who buys chinese goods is getting things cheaper - partly due to the pollution being elsewhere on the planet. Human failings revisited.

Polystyrene hives are a good alternative - well the good ones are, if properly used and properly disposed of, at the end of their useful life! It is the polluters that are the menace.
 
Buy a Beehaus,and you will have two top quality hives in one, that will last forever.
 
Buy a Beehaus,and you will have two top quality hives in one, that will last forever.

Irony can be difficult for casual readers of this forum to detect.
And it is even harder for those happening across a specific post as a result of an internet search ...
 
Both are good and will serve your bees well. As mentioned though you will want to be clear on compatibility issues if running a mix of both (as I am)
 
that was some answer wow thankyou bob the bee

:iagree:
+ I love the way people get defensive when its explained to them their choice of hive is environmentally suspicious.
 
Bob Bee,

Of course 'one use' items should be controlled far better than at present. Packaging and food contaners are obvious items for attention.

But think just a bit. Items which last well over thirty years of contunual use are in a different category entirely. They will (eventually) be recycled at the end of their life, you can be fairly sure of that, in the future, as it will be an economically sensible option.

I am sure that the 'expanding gases' used these days are far less damaging to the atmosphere than the ones used back when.

Think progress. Yes, perhaps ban polystyrene cups - but there needs to be an alternative. At present the alternatives are more expensive. If that issue is addressed, alternatives will be available, and used, in a short time period.

Will the world follow? Ask the Chinese and third-world developing nations if they will stop using the cheapest product available rather than the more expensive (but less polluting) alternatives.

Any one who buys chinese goods is getting things cheaper - partly due to the pollution being elsewhere on the planet. Human failings revisited.

Polystyrene hives are a good alternative - well the good ones are, if properly used and properly disposed of, at the end of their useful life! It is the polluters that are the menace.

As I don't live in the future, its difficult for me to be sure that your statements are correct, and the "we'd better do it because the Chinese and other developing countries will" is a tired and pointless argument. I suspect that many new and some experienced beekeepers will be suckered by salesman into buying poly kit that will have a much shorter lifespan than 30 years.
However we all make our own personal choices about what we do, use and buy. I would be pleased if those choices were informed choices, is all.
 
wood is fine providing its 6" thick.

Thin wooden hives are so inefficient thermally that the bees in the colony must need to consume many extra tens of kgs of nectar to replace the heat loss each year(mostly in the season). The extra flights to fetch that nectar result in extra bee deaths(many thousands?). Causing unneccessary deaths to animals in your care for the cosmetic appearance the building you put them in might be contrued as Cruelty.

As regards environmentally friendly and recycling, one must understand that the useable lifetime of a poly hive is at least 30 years
which must make it one of the best uses for polystyrene.
So to compare the impact of polyhive to one use items like a fishbox or a takeway container is completely invalid. The indications are your poly hive will outlast several wooden ones, and therefore its total lifetime carbon footprint is very good. Thus there is a very good environmentally way of recycling a polyhive when you have finished... give to another bee keeper to keep bees in..
 
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wood is fine providing its 6" thick.

Thin wooden hives are so inefficient thermally that the bees in the colony must need to consume many extra tens of kgs of nectar to replace the heat loss each year. The extra flights to fetch that nectar result in extra bee deaths(many thousands?). Causing unneccessary deaths to animals in your care for the cosmetic appearance the building you put them in might be contrued as Cruelty.

As regards environmentally friendly and recycling, one must understand that the useable lifetime of a poly hive is at least 30 years
which must make it one of the best uses for polystyrene.
So to compare the impact of polyhive to one use items like a fishbox or a takeway container is completely invalid. The indications are your poly hive will outlast several wooden ones, and therefore its total lifetime carbon footprint is very good.

:iagree:
I did a lot of research on the internet before going down the poly route, for me its also about the bee's health which i believe poly is better. Each route has its pluses and minuses its a case of working out what you would prefer. In my case im an early adopter as there's not many in my local association that has moved from wood. I've got a feeling i may start a tread though :)
 

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