boiling frames question.

i have bought an element and have just give the measurements to a man worker who will have an stainless steel boilier made up for me by the end of the week,when i get it going whats the best stuff to put in the water to clean up old frames of wax and propolis and grems?
Darren

.
Lye NaOH 3-5%.

Heat loosens the wax and lye transform it to soap. Soap goes to the bottom.

ADD LYE TO COLD WATER: IN HOT WATER IT BLOWS UP!

Make frame buch what you may turn over.
Don't boil the water. It makes toxic fumes, but keep water near boiling.

Then wash the frames with garden hoast. It frames have wax soap too much, add lye to water - dilute it first to water before you add.

.
If you have whole wires in frames, let them be during boiling.
Tighten the wire with nail and hit down.

Ordinary washing soda does well too and isn't quite as evil to use and isn't such a problem if they end up boiling.

Frisbee

Finman said:

.
Lye NaOH 3-5%.

Click to expand...

Finman is referring to what we know in the UK as "Caustic Soda" or "Sodium Hydroxide"......

NaOH is the chemical name for it


in it's concentrated form, or as a hot solution, take great care if using it as it is corrosive to eyes and skin.

Frisbee said:

Ordinary washing soda does well too and isn't quite as evil to use and isn't such a problem if they end up boiling.

Frisbee

Click to expand...

Caustic Soda works far quicker than washing soda....

if you have a lot of frames to do (and take the necessary H&S precautions) I would choose to use caustic, myself.


but then I am an industrial chemist and have handled the stuff for over 20 years....

Boiled up 10 gallons of washing soda solution and simmered frames in for 20 minutes - spotless! Beats 'caustic lung' any day!

winmag270 said:

Finman is referring to what we know in the UK as "Caustic Soda" or "Sodium Hydroxide"......

NaOH is the chemical name for it

if you have a lot of frames to do (and take the necessary H&S precautions)

Click to expand...

Caustic soda is used for paint stripping doors, where they wear heavy rubber gloves, aprons, boots and eye protection. Powerful stuff if you don't handle it right. Making up a solution, note the precautions. Add the pellets or powder slowly to cold water. It gives off heat and using hot water or pouring water on the dry pellets can boil and spit concentrated soda solution. Not nice.

Moggs said:

Boiled up 10 gallons of washing soda solution and simmered frames in for 20 minutes - spotless! Beats 'caustic lung' any day!

Click to expand...

It takes only couple of minutes to boil. The heat loosens the wax and then it is ready. - What is that 20 minutes?

It takes 2 hours to boil 200 frames.

can you just pour it down the drain after or is there a ''safe'' way of disposing of it

can you use it for lutemehiläisiä?

Tdf said:

can you just pour it down the drain after or is there a ''safe'' way of disposing of it

Click to expand...

I have poured cold boiling water to nettle roots. Thet got not much injuries.
It is same stuff what you use daily.

Na-OH

Sodium is like in food salt Na-Cl

Soil is full of OH ions.

Tdf said:

can you just pour it down the drain after or is there a ''safe'' way of disposing of it

Click to expand...

Caustic soda is sold as a drain cleaner, a lot of it is poured down foul drains intentionally. Any solids should be filtered out, and avoid storm drains intended to take rain water.

alanf said:

Caustic soda is sold as a drain cleaner, a lot of it is poured down foul drains intentionally. Any solids should be filtered out, and avoid storm drains intended to take rain water.

Click to expand...

If the drain is for rain water, it is better to our stuff into soil.
Soil neutralizes the stuff at once.

.

Where can I get some Caustic from?

Any "Trade" plumbing supplier (ie not B&Q but an actual trade supplier)
They may ask you what you are using it for (this has happened to me,I used it a lot in the past for de-coking motorcycle exhausts).
I always said for clearing drains.
Be VERY CAREFUL with Caustic Soda.
It can heat water up to boiling point,can strip the fat out of your skin on contact (nasty) and gives off lethal fumes.Unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing,I would recommend the rather slower but much safer Washing Soda which you can get cheaply at nearly any supermarket.

I use plain tap water in a butanegas boiler, nothing added, outside on a cold day when the bees aren't flying. I use the cooled liquor for feeding the plants.

I use plain tap water

I was toying with the idea of using caustic potash - more expensive, but could be used as a garden fertiliser afterwards.

Sorry to bump this thread but I have had the offer of some old and manky supers and manley frames at a bargain price, I suspect the frames would be best used on the fire but was wondering about boiling the supers in washing soda or 'not' boiling them in caustic, (I have plenty of open space to do it in and the necessary equipment).

What strength solution would you use for each method?

.
I boiled 200 frames last Sunday. I made it in open air in garden (=cottage wood). The container is stalless steel 60 litres. It took 7 frame bunch.
Then it came a heavy rain and it washed the lye.

Now I have used them almost.

I had a steak thermometer in the liquid. No fumes and no dirty palces inside.
Bees foraged so strongly raspberry nectar that they did not come to look what I am doing.

.Pressure washer is good in final cleaning.

.

Finman
How much lye (caustic soda) do you add to a gallon or litre if water?