Varroa.

Has anyone fed their bees copper gluconate in syrup, to increase bee vitality and help kill varroa mites.

No, you aren't thinking of giving your bees mints for their breath are you HM?

I don't suppose that they are suffering from acne either.

It couldn't be that you might have misread:

Side effects from too much copper gluconate may include breathing problems, chest pain, stomach upset, and rash or hives.

That's rash or hives HM, not a rash of hives.

<< sneaks off back to the workshop - leaving a trail of dubious humour in my wake >>

Wow! Why havent I heard of this (don't answer that)

http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/cupric_salts.pdf

ABSTRACT
For three years, about 1,500 hives weresurveyed for varroa mites following feeding tests using cupric gluconate and cupric lactate in sucrose syrup. Three to five litres per hive of 0 to 2.8g of copper
metal per litre of sucrose syrup were given in spring and/or summer. Bee and mite mortalities were recorded up to four years without significant toxicity being noted for honeybees. By contrast, up to 91% of the mites were killed in a dose-dependent manner by gluconate. Lactate was markedly less active than the gluconate, although it also prevented reinfestations. Cupric gluconate in sugar syrup was as attractive, if not more so, than pure sucrose,
and the copper concentrations in honey at harvest were unchanged. Efficacy of
treatments was not brood dependent.
Cupric organic salts therefore provide a safe way for preventing the infestation of hives and the development of the mite over long periods.

Date received. 9 July 1993
Date accepted. 22 September 1993

Hivemaker. said:

Has anyone fed their bees copper gluconate in syrup, to increase bee vitality and help kill varroa mites.

Click to expand...

This is a third forum where the question has been drawn.
Idea is a very old, an Yogoslavian research.
Even Yogosavia has been vanished.

One researcher wrote that it has been tryed 120 hard chemical to varroa. Forum discussion is not needed about them.

It is also mentioned on Dave cushmans site. Also the ingrediant of happy hive salts.

Feeding for drone rearing... Any colony that is expected to produce good quality drones, must have adequate provisions for doing so, and these provisions also need to be in the right place within a hive and be replaced or replenished on an exact time scale. Liquid feed for drone raising... 1 kg sugar + 1 litre water + Fumidil "B" + Thymol at 4x Manley strength. Consider adding 1 gram of copper gluconate, but only after tests to ensure this does not alter the fertility of the drones.


And from the link.

DISCUSSION & CONCLUSIONS
Cupric gluconate was the most
attractive copper compounds we fed to
bees which was not toxic to bees, even
at high dosages. Mortality rates
appeared to be related to seasonal
factors, while mite control rapidly
increased with cupric gluconate doses
and varied with infestations levels.
These points are consistent with the
prominent role of season on the impact
of the infestation (Kovac and Crailsheim
1988). It is noteworthy that the lower
dose provided good efficacy indexes
together with even lower mortality of
bees than in controls. With cupric lactate,
good control also was obtained at low
doses, which may compensate for the
lower attractivity of this compound,
although lactate does not seem to be
superior to gluconate. Taking into
account the large number of parasites
present in other (private) apiaries
situated in the surroundings of our own,
at 3,00&2,000 varroa per hive (Molaire
1990), the final relative efficacy.of long
term treatments with cupric ow
might affect the parasites in the
operculated (i.e. closed) cells, or in
proportion as they emerge from them.
This is probably because of the longtime
presence of cupric salts in the storage
food, as attested by the sustained rate of
parasite mortality after feeding has
stopped, and by the determinations of
copper residues in storage food. The
presence of higher than normal levels
of copper in control hives immediately
after treatments suggests that some
exchanges occurred between workers
of different hives. It is interesting to
note that the lowergluconate dose
yielded the higher increase the
number of brood combs. This represents
a strengthening of the corresponding
colonies, which might correspond to
the improvement effects observed in
the lifespan of the bees (Nectoux 1990),
and therefore fall into the category of
hermetic effects. This contrasts with
the toxicity of pyrethroid compounds,
such as esfenvalerate, to honey bees
(Mayer et al. 1990).
Taken together, these data show that
feeding with copper-containingspups
provides a median and long-term
inhibition of pmarasite deve?pment with
no apparent damage to bees and no
toxic residues inhnnpv. where&e
natural levels of comer (about-lmg/
kg) are not -e-Indeed, cupric
treatments are long-term ones, and their
effects cannot be compared to those of
shock-treatments which use synthetic
acaricides. However, the absence of
salts ranges from toxic residues remaining in honey
84.7% to96.5%. The represents a substantial advantage,
absence of since traces of such pesticides as amitraz
influence of the and fluvalinate are now found
proportion of (Hemmerling, Augustinyak and Risto
brood combs 1991; Sancho et al. 1991), thus lowering
suggests that the quality of honey and raising a
feeding treatments potential risk to consumers.

Finman said:

Idea is a very old, an Yogoslavian research.
Even Yogosavia has been vanished.

Click to expand...

But did it vanish because the pyrethroid strips were starting to be used,which made treatent very easy with a couple of strips..until pyrethroid resistance came along.

http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/anti_varroa_methods.pdf

This seems to happening before 1990. There is no date but research dates are 1989 or older.

e HAPPY
HIVE
SALTS@
MAKE THE MITE FEEL BLUE

*ceding organic cupric salts in the spring and autumn
as directed every year will result in a happy hive and
very low levels of mite infestation.
If a hive should become neglected for whatever reason,
or a beekeeper takes charge of a hive severely infested
with varroa(several thousand mites/deformed bees seen
30 or more natural mite falls a week during the season)
then the hive should be fed two doses of the salts a mont
apart any time during the season April to October.
*Treat every hive in the apiary twice a year as directed
even if i&e l&&Is areire-Q Iow, as reinvasion
(patiieularly in the autumn) is a serious problem.
*Ha-p--py Hive Salts are ideal for feeding to swarms at
the time they -a-re- -h-ived.
*What a%&eeper put6&i~ h%%%ers?i% far as the
pure image of honei is concerned with the public and
for the well-being of the beesJIappy Hive Salts are
the only tratment for varroa that fulfhs both criteria.
FACTS
*Bees prefer syrup with salts than without.
*Efficiency is not brood dependent& works
in sealed brood and on the bee.
*Salts continue working over several months.
*Salts are not toxic to bees even at high doses.
*Salts have a hermetic effect on bees.
*Mite numbers never rise above very low levels.
*Treatment has a stimulating effect on hive strength.
*Salts are not toxic to people,mammals need copper.
*Salts protect bees against poisoning from pesticides.
*Varroa is asphyxiated,and cannot become resistant
to Happy Hive Salts.
*Honey crops are larger when using salts.
*Fits simply into the beekeeDers feedine nrogramme.
“hlake up a very thin syrup aid add
Hffppy Hive S&s (appros quater
teaspoon per pint of syrup ) and use
in a garden plant hand sprayer. l.be
in place of the smoker, spray on

Hivemaker. said:

But did it vanish because the pyrethroid strips were starting to be used,which made treatent very easy with a couple of strips..until pyrethroid resistance came along.

Click to expand...

Perizin was used before apistan strips. Perizin works still today.
I got Perizin from Hamburg 1987. My mother in law brought them.

.
This person is going to get patent

Inventor: Bounias, et al.
Date Issued: June 11, 1991
Application: 07/538,030
Filed: June 13, 1990
Inventors: Bounias; Michel (Cheval-Blanc, FR)
Dufour; Jean F. (Versailles, FR)



http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/5023359.html

Use of organic salts of copper for the treatment of honeybee's parasitic diseases

Also listed on Bickerstaffs website.

With regard to the concern from both beekeepers and the consumers of honey as to the use of pesticides in the control of the mite Varroa jacobsoni an anti -varroa method ,much more subtle than all the other ones has been designed and tested in the laboratory and on the field. This treatment uses the blue organic cupric salt Copper Gluconate which is the only non-polluting and possible remedy available to the beekeeper for fighting against the parasite.



With Happy Hive Salts the pure image of honey can remain intact.
Not only are the salts guaranteed safe and reliable ,they also extend the foraging life of the honeybees due to `hormesis`protecting them from pesticides and leading to a better honey crop .No other Varroa treatment does this.
Every pack of Copper Gluconate organic salts will treat 5 ,20 or 40 colonies twice,both spring and fall.They are not a shock treatment where mite levels are allowed to build up to high levels rather they continue to work over the mid to long term resulting in only very low levels of mites at any time. Appropriate doses of Copper Gluconate are added to the bees food .A varroa absorbing the haemolymph of a bee or drone nourished in this way ,is asphyxiated within some days .Indeed ,Varroas respiration is assured by external membranes (peritremes)and by particular cells (haemocyanins)transporting the oxygen to its whole organism .Copper salts `block`these cells activity and are harmless for the bees because their respiration is assured by a trachael system.


Copper is an essential trace element.
It is necessary for the absorbtion & utilization of Iron and aids in the formation of red blood cells,as well as ensuring proper bone formation and maintenance. More than a dozen enzymes in the human body are dependant on copper for their activity. A deficiency can result in anemia from impaired utilization of iron and blood pressure problems.The low toxicity of copper which is essential to mammals allows it to be incorporated as a fungicidal preservative (giving treatment and protection against Chalkbrood)
Moreover ,Copper Gluconate has the advantage of meeting the specifications of the U.S. Food Chemical Codex which places its safety qualities far above any treatments using pesticides.

Hivemaker. said:

Also listed on Bickerstaffs website.



Copper is an essential trace element.
It is necessary for the absorbtion & utilization of Iron and aids in the formation of red blood cells,as well as ensuring proper bone formation and maintenance. More than a dozen enzymes in the human body are dependant on copper for their activity. A deficiency can result in anemia from impaired utilization of iron and blood pressure problems.The low toxicity of copper which is essential to mammals allows it to be incorporated as a fungicidal preservative (giving treatment and protection against Chalkbrood)
Moreover ,Copper Gluconate has the advantage of meeting the specifications of the U.S. Food Chemical Codex which places its safety qualities far above any treatments using pesticides.

Click to expand...

Who has written this, does not understand what he is writing.

.

Finman said:

Who has written this
.

Click to expand...

Read the name of website.

I don't think the "who" was a question. More like "whoever".

Copper salts are still allowed in organic farming but it is controversial, such as the spraying of copper sulphate on potatoes or grapes.

RoofTops said:

Copper salts are still allowed in organic farming but it is controversial, such as the spraying of copper sulphate on potatoes or grapes.

Click to expand...

I have some copper sulphate here...for treating the feet on sheep ect...is that the same stuff as copper gluconate.

Copper gluconate seems to be a nutritional suppliment,cannot find anything that recommends eating copper sulphate.

http://www.nutritional-supplement-bible.com/copper-gluconate.html

.
The stuff, which kill mites, is an essential trace element to human, that is too fat to be true.

Another thing is that it cures chalk brood. University papers say that "there is no chemical treatments against chalkbrood". Quite many "vital" and "varroa" stuff are said to heal chalkbrood. It is easy to say because when weathers become better, the disease disappear. And beekeepers believe that the stuff healed it.


Hermes, God of commerce and thieves, etc

Finman said:

.
The stuff, which kill mites, is an essential trace element to human, that is too fat to be true.

Click to expand...

Linus Pauling Institute Recommendation

The RDA for copper (900 mcg/day for adults) is sufficient to prevent deficiency, but the lack of clear indicators of copper nutritional status in humans makes it difficult to determine the level of copper intake most likely to promote optimum health or prevent chronic disease. A varied diet should provide enough copper for most people. For those who are concerned that their diet may not provide adequate copper, a multivitamin/multimineral supplement will generally provide at least the RDA for copper.

Adults over the age of 50

Because aging has not been associated with significant changes in the requirement for copper, our recommendation for older adults is the same as that for adults 50 and younger (40).

References


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Written in April 2003 by:
Jane Higdon, Ph.D.
Linus Pauling Institute
Oregon State University

Updated in July 2007 by:
Victoria J. Drake, Ph.D.
Linus Pauling Institute
Oregon State University

Reviewed in July 2007 by:
Judith R. Turnlund, Ph.D., R.D.
Collaborator and Professor of Nutrition, Emeritus
Western Human Nutrition Research Center
University of California, Davis

Copyright 2001-2012 Linus Pauling Institute


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RoofTops said:

Copper salts are still allowed in organic farming but it is controversial, such as the spraying of copper sulphate on potatoes or grapes.

Click to expand...

Hivemaker. said:

I have some copper sulphate here...for treating the feet on sheep ect...is that the same stuff as copper gluconate.

Copper gluconate seems to be a nutritional suppliment,cannot find anything that recommends eating copper sulphate.

http://www.nutritional-supplement-bible.com/copper-gluconate.html

Click to expand...

The details matter. Whatever you do, don't put sodium chlorate on your chips.

.
I read too that excess of copper is not harmfull. Extra copper goes to the cells situated on gut line. Cells and copped will be aborted to feces.

We have enough copper water pipes to get caily copper.

.

Copper Alliance: Our mission is to defend and grow markets for copper based on its superior technical performance and its contribution to a higher quality of life worldwide.

skyhook - remember Linus Pauling rattled like a maraca when they buried him due to the massive number of Vit C tablets he took every day.

Mind you he was somewhat right as he didn't die of the common cold!!!! (shame he hadn't overdosed on Tomato Ketchup instead as that may well have prevented the prostate cancer which got him).