! assume this is Nosema

ok stuck at home with a bad back, so checking bee samples between laying flat on the floor

is this nosema apis or nosema ceranae

no dysentery in the hive or outside

400x using Scopephoto

20 bee bodies (minus heads, wings, thorax) with 20ml of distilled water

It certainly looks like Nosema. I didn't know you could tell the difference using a microscope so I look forward to hearing from an expert who can make a differential diagnosis and explain how.

Hope you recover soon.
Cazza

I did this at my BKA disease day.
Apis is more round than Ceranae though I found it difficult to tell the difference
There are pictures to compare here
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadNews.cfm?id=8

my vote goes to Ceranae

yes, me to, looks like Ceranae and unfortunately they are my bees ( 14x12 and very little honey this year)

Note the magification on my photos is x600, not x400 as i have just found i had the mag at 1.5x digital on the computer program

i have a new KBS queen put on two frames of brood in May now a full 14x12 which appears to be total clear (50 bee sample) and most others tested are infected at about 50% less nosema than the photos but still infected

the talk of the association is Nosema Ceranae appears to be spreading very fast from SW Essex/SE hertfordshire right through our area( north middlesex /SW Herts), one wonders if it has any thing to do with bee hives imported in the Epping SW Essex area by Mr A of WPF

Erichalfbee said:

I did this at my BKA disease day.
Apis is more round than Ceranae though I found it difficult to tell the difference
There are pictures to compare here
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadNews.cfm?id=8

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link

Change out all the brood-containing frames and winter on clean stores frames was the rec at the Spring convention. Nosema ceranae doesn't thrive when frozen. And I don't think you can tell the difference without an EM. And those don't come cheap.

susbees said:

And I don't think you can tell the difference without an EM. And those don't come cheap.

Click to expand...

That was the original thimking of Freis but he now says that with experience the two species may be discriminated using light microscopy. If you see a picture with the two side by side it is relatively easy distinguish but when the slide has only one then the difficulty increases.
For my twopence worth I think it is ceraneae based on the shape of the ends.

Ruary

Interesting. Be good to see a comparative picture.

Ruary said:

That was the original thimking of Freis but he now says that with experience the two species may be discriminated using light microscopy. If you see a picture with the two side by side it is relatively easy distinguish but when the slide has only one then the difficulty increases.
For my twopence worth I think it is ceraneae based on the shape of the ends.

Ruary

Click to expand...

i put the link and my photo to a micro bioligists who is a beekeeper and got this reply

"if you measure the width vs the length, ceranae looks like its >2.0 x longer than wide while apis is <2.0 longer than wide.
i don't know looks like the first sample has both in there."

just done another hive, that's is a different source

this one does have some staining on frames, so more likely Apis

Last course I attended said:-

up to 5 grains per slide - low
5 - 15 grains per slide - medium
Over 15 grains per slide - heavy (treat)

@ 400x

PeterS said:

Last course I attended said:-

up to 5 grains per slide - low
5 - 15 grains per slide - medium
Over 15 grains per slide - heavy (treat)

@ 400x

Click to expand...

Ah yes that sounds like our friend Yates but (t)he did not say how much water was added per bee, and he (they) admit that their classification is purely empirical.
Ruary

PeterS said:

Last course I attended said:-

up to 5 grains per slide - low
5 - 15 grains per slide - medium
Over 15 grains per slide - heavy (treat)

@ 400x

Click to expand...

http://www.extension.org/pages/25556/testing-for-nosema-spores



You can only get an accurate reading/spore count using a hemocytometer,or sperm counter.

Apis tends to clear up in late spring, often to the extent it becomes almost undetectable,Ceranae persists all through the summer and winter.

Hivemaker. said:

You can only get an accurate reading/spore count using a hemocytometer,or sperm counter.

Click to expand...

Well, I don't know if I would agree with the above.

Another method which is in the literature involves the use of a calibrated loop so that an accurate amount of liquid is placed on the slide and covered with a coverslip of known dimensions. from that, and the knowlege of the area of each field of view, an estimate of the number of spores per mililitre can be obtained.

Randy Oliver has checked how the reading of spore counts per drop calibrate against spore counts by haemocytometer. see his webstite www.scientificbeekeeping.com

Bear in mind that all you are getting is the average number of spores per bee in the sample, howver the actual number of spores per bee can vary enormously some bees having millions and others having none.

Perhaps I should mention that I do have a cytometer and have used it once only.
Ruary

MM,

I would tend to vote for ceranae too - they look a bit 'bendier' to me and less stubby at the ends. I don't agree with apis and dysentery 'though. Could be either that might be associated with dysentery or neither!

Try a good dose of vita feed gold - make up the strong solution and trickle onto the seams of bees as you would oxalic. They recommend every 2 days, but I have done it less frequently than this for 3 or 4 doses and have had a massive improvement. I did change out the combs too.

Meg

PeterS said:

Last course I attended said:-

up to 5 grains per slide - low
5 - 15 grains per slide - medium
Over 15 grains per slide - heavy (treat)

@ 400x

Click to expand...

Just re-read what you said.
5 grains per slide etc.???

Surely you meant per field of view and as I said earlier I think that those criteria are set at far too few for each category.
Ruary

This was from my notes at the Microscopy Course at Stoneleigh this year.
Thinking about it it must be field of view.

Thank you for the imformation about the loop method Ruary,perhaps you ought to be advising the university of Minnesota.

Ruary,have you tested many queens for nosema,if so have you found many to have it.