second quality frames

ok, normally splash out on 1st quality frames but in the rush to make and order up to £200 last year i purchased 50 SN1s

i never looked at them realy until i made them up today ( ie tonight)

ahhhhhh, see photo of the sample 20% defective, now all i would say i did not buy them from the biggest supplier, so dont blame them

Have i been unlucky, do others use seconds?

I've bought 99% of my frames as seconds in thornes sale...

So far I've had 2-3 per batch of 50 that are unuable, and only 1 top bar out of about 200 has been any where as near as the ones in your photo.

Most of my brood boxes and supers are also "seconds", even if they are canadian red cedar. I've had to repalce a few strips along the edges of a couple of these, and "glue up" a knot in one other.

I bought 50 Sn1 frames recently and had 1 frames worth of bad bits and a another bad side bar, so all in all pleased with them. Any knots were too small to be a problem, some parts needed a bit of filing or paring, but I've had top quality frames that were not a great fit either.

Mine were Th**nes seconds (I think) but sold by another vendor.

Sorry yours are so bad.

Maybe best plan is buy at a show where you can at least get a peek at the pack of bits and have a rough idea of their quality.

I usually find it is the top bars which are the limiting factor. They need to be fairly good for 14 x 12s. Usually about 2% losses, but likely a bit higher this last winter sale as some of the lugs were cross-grained and weak.

Not tested them all yet (they get a tap with hammer to test (before fitting foundation), rather than them break in service! Mine have all been sourced from Th*rne.

Those look no better than firewood!

RAB

oliver90owner said:

I usually find it is the top bars which are the limiting factor. They need to be fairly good for 14 x 12s. Usually about 2% losses, but likely a bit higher this last winter sale as some of the lugs were cross-grained and weak.

Not tested them all yet (they get a tap with hammer to test (before fitting foundation), rather than them break in service! Mine have all been sourced from Th*rne.

Those look no better than firewood!

RAB

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if they where £hornes i would have run them back to windsor but it would be 5 hr road trip to the A417, just checked 19 frames out of 25 were passable, not ok, just passable

but their hives were much better than other seconds i have bought

I bought dirt cheap ones from the company that uses recycled stuff. Some of them needed to be fixed with hard as nails/ wood filler before I could use them. They don't look nice and it is extra work, but they were half the price and the bees don't mind.

I bought 200 from P***es at a very good price, out of that lot only one side bar was useles and the majority of the parts had no knots at all, but they were in th**es packaging marked seconds

Last year I bought 50 Manley's from M++more and they were fine. Lost a couple of side bars and one top bar.

Dave

kermit said:

Last year I bought 50 Manley's from M++more and they were fine. Lost a couple of side bars and one top bar.

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You were lucky they didn't supply their 'australian' side bars (hoffmans) - two slots at the top, one slot at the bottom. There is a photo floating around somewhere on here.

MuswellMetro said:

ok, normally splash out on 1st quality frames but in the rush to make and order up to £200 last year i purchased 50 SN1s

i never looked at them realy until i made them up today ( ie tonight)

ahhhhhh, see photo of the sample 20% defective, now all i would say i did not buy them from the biggest supplier, so dont blame them

Have i been unlucky, do others use seconds?

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I use a lot of seconds from Thoxxes new year sale and have only had a couple that have required a bit of attention. The ones shown in photo are not seconds but rubbish and not fit for purpose IMHO.
S

im using seconds supers from thorne slightly wrapped but still useable

jallen said:

im using seconds supers from thorne slightly wrapped but still useable

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Why not just unwrap them then.

Hivemaker. said:

Why not just unwrap them then.

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i see you have a warped sense of humour

I get 50 DN4 and 50 SN4 all seconds last year in T's sail. All made up now with 100% success.

Vortex, I don't calculate on a single batch of 50. Things likely improve a bit with multiple lots. If I lose 3 top bars in every 50, I reckon that is poor, but that will only mean recycling a couple frames from the used heap (where the side bars are bad at the bottom).

Polyanwood, were half the price of what? If they were half price of Th*rne seconds that was good!

kermit, yours seem about right 2% unserviceable, 1 frame in 50. Not bad at all.

chickendave, You may have been lucky and they were 'all-good' but I would strongly suspect they were not first quality. 'Knot free' is not the only criterion considered for reducing the part to 'second quality'.

Here are a few I notice with National frames from 'you know who':

side bars - wrong width, knotty, cross grained, poor surface finish, top slot not central, sprung, curved, bent, bottom slots not accurate, broken pieces at bottom, splits, groove not central.

Top bars - width, knotty, cross grained, bad staining, cracks, sap voids, shoulders not machined centrally, wedge weak, wedge not sawn adequately, poor surface finish.

Bottom bars - cross grained, too thin, bent, bowed, stained.

There may be a few more possible defects, but those should give you something to check out if they are not knotty!

m100, I remember those! def 'not fit for purpose'!!

MM, A417 Got to get the map book out now! Sounds Banbury-ish? (and then further) without looking.

Regards all, RAB

RAB
I agree they were not first quality and you or correct there was poor surface finish on some parts, I am no mathatishsion but only one side bar from 200 frames is not bad and all the frames fitted together as they sould have
Perhaps I was lucky but all I can say is you pays your monies and take your chance, as with any seconds some can be better than others

Dave

oliver90owner said:

MM, A417 Got to get the map book out now! Sounds Banbury-ish? (and then further) without looking.

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Just been checking the (now discredited?) suppliers map and it looks like the only major player on the A417 is just north of Gloucester, begins with an M.

Shame - I got a second WBC 14x12 box and lift from them in their sale, both of which were fine but I'll now know not to bother with their frames.

MM - did you ask about returning them?

Monsieur Abeille said:

did you ask about returning them?

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Dodgy Hoffmans

re dodgy hoffmans - just saw or chisel off the offending bits and you have serviceable DN1 sidebar!!!!